What exactly was she charged with?

 

Nothing. She wasn't arrested like the title says as far as i know.

I see. What law was she breaking that he could have arrested her for?

I am reading a lot of back and forth on whether or not the officer was legally allowed to get the blood specimen. IMO, it doesn't matter here. The nurse was following the rule as she knew it, with the support of her superiors that she consulted on the phone. You can even hear the guy on the phone say "don't blame the messenger," and "officer, you are making a big mistake."

 

If there was a legal issue, she was doing her best to clarify in an attempt to do the right thing. The officer seemed to take offense at someone standing up to him and not give in to his bullying. He got angry and physically took it out on an innocent person.

 

I work with police officers every day, and the vast majority are great people working under tremendous stress. There are bad apples in every profession, and he is one bad apple!

 

This really is getting at the heart of the matter and I disagree with you @Beechwoodfan it does matter here because the law matters. Just hang on for me and read the rest of my randomness here.

 

In cases like this you have Police Procedure, Hospital Procedure, CDL Requirements, Supreme Court Rulings, Local Customs, Case Law, a Serious Criminal Investigation and finally the LAW.

 

The larger issue here is exactly what is the Law in this case? Not what anyone's rules or procedure is, what is the Law?

 

I am not blaming the Nurse here or defending the Police Officer but just because the Hospital has a Procedure they follow doesn't mean that the hospital procedure is lawful given a unique set of circumstances. And the same for the Police, just because you have a Police Procedure, or because your Lieutenant (or other superior says so) doesn't give the Police the lawful authority to do what they did to the nurse. Again, what is the Law?

 

Trying to make it simple, we all have rules, procedures, and laws to follow and situations like this should NEVER devolve to this level. In other words, I BLAME "The System" here for not having its act together.

 

Again, what is the law? And once we know the law we know the procedure.

 

Finally, it is the Police Department's Responsibility to know the law inside and out, forwards and backwards in cases like this.

This really is getting at the heart of the matter and I disagree with you @Beechwoodfan it does matter here because the law matters. Just hang on for me and read the rest of my randomness here.

 

In cases like this you have Police Procedure, Hospital Procedure, CDL Requirements, Supreme Court Rulings, Local Customs, Case Law, a Serious Criminal Investigation and finally the LAW.

 

The larger issue here is exactly what is the Law in this case? Not what anyone's rules or procedure is, what is the Law?

 

I am not blaming the Nurse here or defending the Police Officer but just because the Hospital has a Procedure they follow doesn't mean that the hospital procedure is lawful given a unique set of circumstances. And the same for the Police, just because you have a Police Procedure, or because your Lieutenant (or other superior says so) doesn't give the Police the lawful authority to do what they did to the nurse. Again, what is the Law?

 

Trying to make it simple, we all have rules, procedures, and laws to follow and situations like this should NEVER devolve to this level. In other words, I BLAME "The System" here for not having its act together.

 

Again, what is the law? And once we know the law we know the procedure.

 

Finally, it is the Police Department's Responsibility to know the law inside and out, forwards and backwards in cases like this.

 

Fair enough, but let's say he was correct, does that make it ok to arrest the nurse...or handcuff her and drag her out if there like that?

Fair enough, but let's say he was correct, does that make it ok to arrest the nurse?

 

First of all, my gut feeling is the Nurse was probably "right" based on the law but I admittedly don't know the law.

 

In general terms, anyone that interferes with the lawful actions of the Police are at great risk of being arrested.

 

I think the important takeaways are:

 

1. We all need to be on the same page with the Law.

 

2. The Law supersedes anyone's policy/procedure.

First of all, my gut feeling is the Nurse was probably "right" based on the law but I admittedly don't know the law.

 

In general terms, anyone that interferes with the lawful actions of the Police are at great risk of being arrested.

 

I think the important takeaways are:

 

1. We all need to be on the same page with the Law.

 

2. The Law supersedes anyone's policy/procedure.

 

True, but that nurse didn't write the hospital policy. I see no way to justify his treatment of her, particularly because she was clearly trying to do the right thing.

True, but that nurse didn't write the hospital policy. I see no way to justify his treatment of her, particularly because she was clearly trying to do the right thing.

 

That is the point you are missing, if (and this is a huge if in this case but if) the hospital policy is not in lockstep with the law then the hospital policy isn't worth the paper it is written on, and therefore the hospital policy offers no protection or justification for any hospital employee to interfere with a Police Officer who is following the law.

I'm a staunch supporter of law enforcement but I really believe that this guy messed up. As I watched the video the impression I got was the officer was trying to embarrass/intimidate the nurse. Telling line was after he cuffed her and was pushing her towards the car she complained that he was hurting her, his response was walk faster then. I see a soon to be out of work officer and a check with many zeroes written to the nurse.

That is the point you are missing, if (and this is a huge if in this case but if) the hospital policy is not in lockstep with the law then the hospital policy isn't worth the paper it is written on, and therefore the hospital policy offers no protection or justification for any hospital employee to interfere with a Police Officer who is following the law.

 

If the law of implied consent is not valid in Utah, and from the articles that I've read it is not. Then he was not issuing lawful instructions to the nurse. It sounds as if the nurse knew the law better than the police officers.

If the law of implied consent is not valid in Utah, and from the articles that I've read it is not. Then he was not issuing lawful instructions to the nurse. It sounds as if the nurse knew the law better than the police officers.

 

I understand, the post you quoted was an attempt to explain the process as a whole in general terms, not take a position on fault in specific terms.

 

Again, as I stated with my first post in this thread:

 

If the Police Officer did not have a legal right to draw the blood and therefore probably (I say probably because I don't know the facts) no legal right to make an arrest the Police Officer should be fired.

I'm a staunch supporter of law enforcement but I really believe that this guy messed up. As I watched the video the impression I got was the officer was trying to embarrass/intimidate the nurse. Telling line was after he cuffed her and was pushing her towards the car she complained that he was hurting her, his response was walk faster then. I see a soon to be out of work officer and a check with many zeroes written to the nurse.

 

You can support law enforcement and still understand that police will screw up from time to time.

That is the point you are missing, if (and this is a huge if in this case but if) the hospital policy is not in lockstep with the law then the hospital policy isn't worth the paper it is written on, and therefore the hospital policy offers no protection or justification for any hospital employee to interfere with a Police Officer who is following the law.

 

The point you are missing is that, as a nurse, we are repeatedly reminded to protect our patients under the federal HIPPA law. Violation of HIPPA is grounds for immediate termination, and loss of pension. It is drilled repeatedly in every health care workers mind.

 

So, as she is trying to do the right thing, with her supervisors on the phone, can you really justify what happened to her?

The point you are missing is that, as a nurse, we are repeatedly reminded to protect our patients under the federal HIPPA law. Violation of HIPPA is grounds for immediate termination, and loss of pension. It is drilled repeatedly in every health care workers mind.

 

So, as she is trying to do the right thing, with her supervisors on the phone, can you really justify what happened to her?

 

Good call, add HIPPA into the mix of competing laws, rules, procedures, policies, etc... And, the "right thing" is subject to interpretation and her supervisors are like the officer's supervisors, a non-factor.

 

Again, what is the Law?

 

The Police believed they had a right/duty to do something and the Hospital believed they had a right/duty to do something. Those "somethings" conflicted with each other and there has to be a rule of Law that settles it and I can guarantee you it is not Hospital Policy or Police Policy, a Hospital Supervisor or a Police Supervisor, or that Nurse or that Officer.

 

Justify? I have already said twice if the Officer did not have a legal right to make an arrest I think he should be fired. Do you want a pound of flesh from me too?

Naww, but I do love a lively discussion with you.

You can support law enforcement and still understand that police will screw up from time to time.

 

Not to pick on you (OK, maybe a little, but in a friendly way), but for you to say this, it must be really bad in your eyes.