August 23, 20179 yr The players that have the most to do with a QB's success are the offensive lineman... Dalton hasn't had near the talent on the O-line as Anderson and Esiason did in their SB seasons... not even close. If AJ takes over at QB... same thing. The O-line is far from the O-lines of past Bengal teams... Heck, I don't even think Palmer enjoyed a very good O-line like Anderson and Esiason did for short stretches... We haven't had a legit Center in maybe 20 years... seriously. If you don't have time to hand the ball off or allow plays to develop downfield... you don't have much chance. Everyone knows that this year's O-line is weak... so if The Bengals make a playoff run... I think we can all agree that Dalton or McCarron or (whoever is QB) is gonna have to play very well for that to happen. Also, I'd love it if people would quit underestimating the skill players from those SB teams on both sides of the ball... I mean, for Esiason... James Brooks, Ickey Woods and Stanley Wilson... Rodney Holman (great TE), Eddie Brown, Tim McGee, Chris Collinsworth... great players. On defense: Krumrie was a beast, Fulcher was a beast,... Thomas, Wilcots and Billups were very solid players... if Billups doesn't drop that INT, he makes the biggest play in franchise history... The O-line... please... Munoz, Montoya, etc etc Anderson had Griffin and Pete Johnson, Dan Ross, Collinsworth, Curtis... I mean, those were great teams with good coaches... it takes a team.. if it was only QB, why did Anderson and Esiason only get there once? In fact, never even got to another AFC Championship game... either QB... why not? Because it takes a team effort... not just a QB effort. Until last year the Bengals o line has ranked as one of the best lines in football during Daltons 6 years. Last year they were horrible though. As for centers no arguments here, our center sucks. I would say that all centers have been bad over the last 20 years. Both Rich Braham and Kyle Cook were very solid for us. As for all those stacked players on super bowl teams. Why is it that they basically had one amazing year but the other years around it they didn't do to well and couldn't make the playoffs. I think making the Super Bowl makes people only rmemeber how those players were that year, and forget those players may not have been so great the other years.
August 23, 20179 yr Until last year the Bengals o line has ranked as one of the best lines in football during Daltons 6 years. Last year they were horrible though. As for centers no arguments here, our center sucks. I would say that all centers have been bad over the last 20 years. Both Rich Braham and Kyle Cook were very solid for us. As for all those stacked players on super bowl teams. Why is it that they basically had one amazing year but the other years around it they didn't do to well and couldn't make the playoffs. I think making the Super Bowl makes people only rmemeber how those players were that year, and forget those players may not have been so great the other years. Good post and your last paragraph goes a long way to backing up what I've been saying... it's a team effort... besides the SB years, how successful were Anderson and Esiason? Not very successful... in fact, not as successful as Dalton has been... is that all Dalton? Of course not... just as the team didn't live and die by Anderson or Esiason. As far as O-line... I don't care if Dalton's guys ranked number one... he's never had an O-line like Esiason or Anderson imo... I mean Whit compared to Munoz... laughable... Whit's best year would be equal to Munoz worst year. Palmer had some okay line play... personally I never thought Cook was much... although I'd love to have him now... lol! Edited August 23, 20179 yr by footmaster
August 23, 20179 yr Good post and your last paragraph goes a long way to backing up what I've been saying... it's a team effort... besides the SB years, how successful were Anderson and Esiason? Not very successful... in fact, not as successful as Dalton has been... is that all Dalton? Of course not... just as the team didn't live and die by Anderson or Esiason. As far as O-line... I don't care if Dalton's guys ranked number one... he's never had an O-line like Esiason or Anderson imo... I mean Whit compared to Munoz... laughable... Whit's best year would be equal to Munoz worst year. Palmer had some okay line play... personally I never thought Cook was much... although I'd love to have him now... lol! I definitely get what you're saying. My point is everyone falls back on well Dalton has made 5 playoffs. Which is great. However I do think with the talent he has had around him, many qbs would have made the playoffs too with those guys. Especially in 2011, 2012, and 2014 when he didn't really do to much those seasons in helping get to the playoffs. When people defend Dalton they fall back on well he wins. Which is true, I just believe there would have been many qbs who would have done what he did these last 6 years and would have beat mostly all the teams they are suppose to beat with the talent around them on both sides of the ball. What he hasn't done is look good at all in prime time or playoff games. I do believe having a qb who has a better mindset and not afraid of the big moments would be good for this team. For all 6 years when people and players talked about who the leader of the team was they said Whit. That's a problem that our qb never took over that role, and basically demanded. What teams have ever gone far with their tackle being the leader of their team. So yes I agree it takes a team to get over the top. However when you have a whole team who doesn't know how to do that. Having a qb who was a leader and not afraid of that moment to lead the team in those situations could go a far way in helping get over the top. I know coaching also plays a big part. However his play in those games, and the fact he could never take over that leadership role in 6 years speakes volumes imo. He is a good player, a great teammate, a great person, but has never really shown that he is that leader at the qb spot that imo this team needs. Those super bowl teams you mentioned did have good players on it too, however they also had true leaders at qb leading those teams. Especially Boomer.
August 23, 20179 yr Another season of unreadable Bengals threads. A BGP tradition like no other... True. However with this being preseason game number 2. You would have had 7 post and that's it. Wouldn't have been much discussion on it anyways.
August 23, 20179 yr Besides for two years 2013 and 2015 has Dalton looked any better than just average? Imo 2011, 2012, 2014, and 2016 were all very average by him, and I'm not sure how someone could argue that. 2013 and 2015 he played very good, except in prime time games and playoff game still. You won't hear me say McCarron looked great because I agree he did look average. However I think he would be like Dalton average most years, and occasionally break out for a big year like Dalton did twice in 6 years. The difference for me is can Dalton get better in the big moments. In 6 years he still hasn't looked much better in those moments. While McCarron at worst has looked as good if not better than Dalton in those moments. Yet he also did it with a lot less experience. McCarron could suck. I'm just willing to take that chance if Dalton and the Bengals fail again. I deal with facts. Here's what I know. I know Andy Dalton is capable of leading his team to the postseason. I know Andy Dalton can beat playoff caliber teams. I know Andy Dalton can win on the road in the NFL, and do so against playoff-caliber teams. I know none of that about McCarron. So if Bengals fans want to trade that in for the unknown, that's their prerogative, but it's my prerogative to think they're out of their gourds to do so.
August 23, 20179 yr I definitely get what you're saying. My point is everyone falls back on well Dalton has made 5 playoffs. Which is great. However I do think with the talent he has had around him, many qbs would have made the playoffs too with those guys. Especially in 2011, 2012, and 2014 when he didn't really do to much those seasons in helping get to the playoffs. When people defend Dalton they fall back on well he wins. Which is true, I just believe there would have been many qbs who would have done what he did these last 6 years and would have beat mostly all the teams they are suppose to beat with the talent around them on both sides of the ball. What he hasn't done is look good at all in prime time or playoff games. I do believe having a qb who has a better mindset and not afraid of the big moments would be good for this team. For all 6 years when people and players talked about who the leader of the team was they said Whit. That's a problem that our qb never took over that role, and basically demanded. What teams have ever gone far with their tackle being the leader of their team. So yes I agree it takes a team to get over the top. However when you have a whole team who doesn't know how to do that. Having a qb who was a leader and not afraid of that moment to lead the team in those situations could go a far way in helping get over the top. I know coaching also plays a big part. However his play in those games, and the fact he could never take over that leadership role in 6 years speakes volumes imo. He is a good player, a great teammate, a great person, but has never really shown that he is that leader at the qb spot that imo this team needs. Those super bowl teams you mentioned did have good players on it too, however they also had true leaders at qb leading those teams. Especially Boomer. Good post again FC... but what you say about Boomer at the end is exactly why myself and many others are still behind Andy... Here's what I mean: I loved Boomer and Kenny, but as good as they were and as good as some of their teams were... did they ever enjoy a run of 5 straight trips to the post season? I know we didn't win in those trips yet... but how many years in a row, with talent on both sides of the ball, did either QB "lead" them to the playoffs? I don't believe they ever even made it 3 years in a row. Either guy. They each had 1 great run in their entire careers in post season... one. Like some have said, get me there and we'll roll the dice. 5 out of 6 seasons in post season is the most successful run in franchise history, period. The SB seasons were the best seasons.. obviously, but there were 7 or 8 years between them and we all know we're on decades now since the last SB appearance. So, where u say ride with Andy one more year, I say 3 or 4 more years... I believe Anderson was in his 9th season when he went to a SB... hellbird would know... I know for sure he wasn't in his 3rd or 4th year. He was around at least as long as Andy.
August 23, 20179 yr Another season of unreadable Bengals threads. A BGP tradition like no other... Not that you're obligated to... but maybe you and others can chime in on the "QB debate" and we can squash the thing once and for all. I only comment on it, because with this franchise's history... I think the Andy bashing is silly. No idea where u stand... but share if u wish.
August 23, 20179 yr Not that you're obligated to... but maybe you and others can chime in on the "QB debate" and we can squash the thing once and for all. I only comment on it, because with this franchise's history... I think the Andy bashing is silly. No idea where u stand... but share if u wish. I have made my stance known in the past. I have no desire to make that same stance over and over again in every Bengals thread for the rest of Daulton's career in Cincinnati. Nor do I have any desire to read those that have been making the same argument for either side since he was drafted. Carry on. Without me, of course...
August 23, 20179 yr True. However with this being preseason game number 2. You would have had 7 post and that's it. Wouldn't have been much discussion on it anyways. We can discuss whatever we want as long at it has some bearing on the thread... which the QB situation has a bearing on the team. As long as we're not being political or disrespectful... which we aren't... You carry on FC and say whatever you want. It's a message board after all.
August 23, 20179 yr Not that you're obligated to... but maybe you and others can chime in on the "QB debate" and we can squash the thing once and for all. I only comment on it, because with this franchise's history... I think the Andy bashing is silly. No idea where u stand... but share if u wish. Here is the thing I don't feel like anyone is changing their opinion no matter how many share that opinion or disagree with it. I honestly was a HUGE Dalton supporter his first 4 seasons. Me and Hellbird got in many debates on him. Now while I agree with him now on wanting to see a possible change there. I don't agree with him on he is horrible or some of those comments like that. He is an average to an above average qb. When he has a top 5 wr and a top 5 te to throw to, he puts up good numbers. Well good numbers in 1 and 4 o'clock games. The only thing I think he struggles as is the big moments, the national stage type games against good teams. Yes as a team we struggle. I just feel that's why it would be even more helpful to have a qb who is more of that leader and doesn't seem to shy from those moments or doesn't know how to play in those moments. If our qb isn't great in those moments, then how is the rest of the team suppose to be. That's why I am more on board with the M cCarron thing now. Which I truly do hope Dalton proves me completely wrong.
August 23, 20179 yr I deal with facts. Here's what I know. I know Andy Dalton is capable of leading his team to the postseason. I know Andy Dalton can beat playoff caliber teams. I know Andy Dalton can win on the road in the NFL, and do so against playoff-caliber teams. I know none of that about McCarron. So if Bengals fans want to trade that in for the unknown, that's their prerogative, but it's my prerogative to think they're out of their gourds to do so. Fair enough no argument here. If people feel like Dalton would give them the better chance still that's fine. I would agree to disagree. My argument comes when people try to act like it would be stupid to go with McCarron and act like they know he wouldn't do well. Just like I admit I can't guarntee he would do well, people can't guarntee he wouldn't do well either. He truly may give them the better chance in those spots, or he may not. None of us know for sure. I'm just more willing to take that chance after this year if they fail again and Dalton still looks bad in those situations. Because all the stuff you said you know. It can also be said we know Dalton is not good in the big moments in national stage games in prime time or playoffs. After 6 year that is a known fact too. If he gets the credit for the wins, people can't turn around and say well it's the other players faults when they lose.
August 23, 20179 yr I deal with facts. Here's what I know. I know Andy Dalton is capable of leading his team to the postseason. I know Andy Dalton can beat playoff caliber teams. I know Andy Dalton can win on the road in the NFL, and do so against playoff-caliber teams. I know none of that about McCarron. So if Bengals fans want to trade that in for the unknown, that's their prerogative, but it's my prerogative to think they're out of their gourds to do so. I know Andy Dalton is capable of leading his team to the postseason. - Except for 2016 correct I know Andy Dalton can beat playoff caliber teams. - except for in the playoffs when it counts I know Andy Dalton can win on the road in the NFL, and do so against playoff-caliber teams. - except for in the playoffs when it counts I know none of that about McCarron. - dont know that he cant do any of the things you listed above either
August 24, 20179 yr Bengals cut DT Brandon Thompson and the Browns just picked him up. I figured he might be on his way out....
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