I don't follow the logic on #2.

 

How does a school emphasizing anything academic-related hurt football?

 

What am I missing here?

 

If by academics, you mean ACT/SAT test scores, success in standardized test being an indicator of College success is proving to be mythology. Colleges are beginning to drop ACT/SAT requirements and the quality of their incoming classes is going up.

 

Getting a high ACT score says nothing about your work ethic, persistence or your ability to overcome obstacles. Football, and other High School sports do.

 

We need to do three things to improve secondary education (That trickle down to athletics).

 

1) Stop spending money on top heavy administrators that do nothing to deliver education.

 

2) Increase funding for teachers.

 

3) Get the federal government out of our classrooms.

I don't follow the logic on #2.

 

How does a school emphasizing anything academic-related hurt football?

 

What am I missing here?

 

Because everything else gets left behind. Sports, clubs, etc. These things improve school culture and education but are often seen as distractions that take away from learning.

To all who replied I'm asking HOW those things you mention come about. How does worrying about standardized test scores impact high school football coaches? What's the negative impact?

 

Let's also say a school doesn't think sports are an enhancement to academics. How is that being manifested in regards to impacting football?

In the mid 80's a football coach named...........Lou Holtz.......said that a persons performance in extracurricular activities was a better predictor of future success than a persons ACT score................30 or so yrs later..........I think he may be right.

My thoughts:

 

A tough job continues to get tougher.

 

1-Football is a numbers game. Every time a new sport/activity is added, inside or outside of school, it takes away from numbers. There is a significant burden on HS Football coaches to make their game attractive to kids. Back in the old days, many kids played because there was less to do, it was expected/standard for most guys to play, and football practice could be an escape from working on the farm.... not as many guys looking to escape the Xbox or PS4.

 

2-The emphasis on test scores has de-emphasized everything that does not DIRECTLY impact test scores. Athletics are not valued as they were in the past. Don't blame the superintendents/principals. They are doing what they were hired to do. They are hired hands and the reality is they have to produce in regards to test scores. There are still some out there that value athletics. At Mason and at Mercer, my bosses have valued athletics.

 

3-It is getting tougher to get good assistants in the building. Since athletics are not valued as much in the past, hiring coaches is not as big of a priority. And, when you do get a good teacher/coach hired in the building, the teaching demands are substantially more than they were 30 years ago. It takes a tremendous amount of time to be a good assistant coach, teacher, husband, and father. When a guy has to give up one of those four, it is going to be coaching. There is a growing shortage of teacher/football coaches in the state. Having assistants in the building is crucial to building relationships with kids and the faculty. The assistants help recruit kids to the program. And, usually if a guy can handle a classroom of 30 kids all day or manage the boatload of paperwork the special ed guys are doing, he is a pretty good coach. AND... it takes more than ONE good assistant coach to have a quality football staff. At Mason we had 7 of us in the buildings at one time. At Mercer, we have 8 of us in the school buildings. Even though I am the random drug testing coordinator, my office is at the HS so that I can be in the hallways and be around the kids as much as possible.

 

4- Finances. Gate receipts & attendance overall do not seem to be what they used to be.... but I have no hard data to back that up. But, I know our gates at Mason declined over the years, even when we were 12-0, and our gates at Mercer, other than the Bowl, were not very good. Red book regulations have made it tougher to get things done if you do have some money and tougher to reward your coaches with attending the state finals or a clinic. Part of this goes to the de-emphasis of athletics. The financial piece makes the program more dependent on the booster club & parents, creating a very unhealthy relationship. When the football program depends on parents and fundraising to survive, parents can feel entitled to share their thoughts on how a program is run, including playing time. Booster Clubs can be a huge asset. But, depending on the Boosters for necessities and basics sets up an unhealthy relationship. Our parents at Mercer have been exceptionally supportive/cooperative, but we are too dependent on them financially and we have to fix that. At Mason, our parents were also very good & helped with fundraising but we were not as dependent on them as we are at Mercer.

 

I don't have easy solutions to the above. I think it comes down to what a community / school prioritize AND also what are the available resources. Some schools/communities value athletics, but the money and resources just are not there to address what is listed above. Resources are poured into test scores.

 

If a place is 2 for 2 .... commitment to football/athletics and the resources to get it done.... you probably have a pretty good program and a coach that has stayed there for an extended period. If you only have 1 out of 2, or worse, zero for 2, it gets very tough to consistently have a strong football program.

 

Finally, this is why I get so aggravated over the 7 on 7 and summer football arguments. I want to get my guys ready for the season, especially in regards to acclimated to the heat. But, in my opinion, the things listed above are why football has struggled in our state. Not how many times we can do 7 on 7.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

Football Coaches Committees giving up 7 on 7 in June. We eat our own and give basketball EVERYTHING!

Football Coaches Committees giving up 7 on 7 in June. We eat our own and give basketball EVERYTHING!

WE coaches don't fight for football. That's why some leave for Bama or Florida.

To all who replied I'm asking HOW those things you mention come about. How does worrying about standardized test scores impact high school football coaches? What's the negative impact?

 

Let's also say a school doesn't think sports are an enhancement to academics. How is that being manifested in regards to impacting football?

Hiring coaches would be the main way. In some schools potential teachers aren't hired because they coach.

i know here in western KY.. we have alot of programs that have LONG time head coaches, here in Crittenden County our Head Coach (Starnes) is going on 25+ years, Mayfield's Coach Morris long time, Caldwell's Coach Barnes... plus here in Crittenden... all of Starnes assistants are his former players whom have come back and taken teaching postions and some that work outside the system to help ... the winning programs retain their coaches and the ones that struggle are searching for that coach that can work magic... look at Webster County 3 or 4 coaches in like 5-6 years.. it is tough to build a program when the top is so unstable

I'm still sort of lost? Is it like a Dare Officer? I've never heard of that position. Is it a new trend? Is it taking over the Driving Instructor?

I'm still sort of lost? Is it like a Dare Officer? I've never heard of that position. Is it a new trend? Is it taking over the Driving Instructor?

 

Email me at [email protected] & I will send you a job description. :thumb:

I really think it’s ultimately getting down to “Is it worth it?” Time is money.

 

Some added thoughts on this (pardon the length).

A) Pay Raises? What are those?

It’s already been mentioned, but where else can you find a career where wages have been frozen for 20-30 years? (and, in some cases cut. A good amount of coaches, even assistant coaches, used to receive “Extended Day” pay and those are no more) Coaches were compensated for their time spent coaching in August/late July.

 

B) “Back to School, back to school………..”

I think the start of school has greatly impacted this mass exodus over the years. Most all of us on here remember the days where school didn’t start until the last week of August or the Wednesday/Thursday after Labor Day (my senior year of high school was 15 years ago and we didn’t start until then). Let’s be sure to keep in mind that this is when pay was as much, if not more than what it is TODAY.

 

Back when school started after Labor Day, practice didn’t begin until August 1st. Games also didn’t start until Labor Day weekend. As the years moved on, school was pushed back to that 3rd or 4th week of August, and the season began that last weekend in August.

 

As the years moved on even more, the “Year Around” school schedule started to become more prevalent. How did this affect the start of practice and beginning of the season? You guessed it. Those also moved back (or forward, however you are viewing this).

 

Take this past season for example; if you started July 10th (call it practice then, call it work outs; whichever), then your team had already completed THREE FULL WEEKS of practice BEFORE August 1st (Let’s be sure to still keep in mind, that coaches are still making that same pay…or less than they were some 20-30 years ago when practice wasn’t BEGINNING until August 1st). Sit back and really think about that for a second.

C) Football: The New Summer Sport

You know who has thought long and hard about the above? I’ll tell you who has, and that’s many of the coaches who have chosen to get out of it the last few years and some good ones at that.

 

June/July late afternoons and evenings are for (players and/or coaches)

 

• Being at the ballpark watching a sibling/son/daughter play.

• Your players playing Travel/Legion ball if they are also baseball players. Baseball in general makes sense in June/July.

• Putting burgers on the grill while your wife and kids are in the pool.

• Amusement Parks

• Florida

• Houseboat Trips

• Visiting family hours away.

• Loading up on the golf cart with your wife and two young kids to go be-bop around on the course after the regulars have left for the day.

• Fishing (at the creek, your buddies pond(s) or at the lake)

• Camping

• All of the above

 

D) Looking For Help is like Looking For Unicorns

Coach B talked about the shortage of assistant coaches, who are becoming more and more those of Para-Pros, because administrators (for whatever reason) are reluctant to hiring coaches and/or when teachers-coaches get tenured, they drop the coaching side of things.

 

The Para-Pros obviously have other areas of work (construction, Insurance Agents, etc.), which means practice/workouts for the majority across the state is in the evenings. Well, how attractive do you think making $2K is for the next 4-5 months, all while being asked to give up the majority of their evenings in the Summer as well? It’s not.

 

E) Longer seasons= Same pay (or less) as the Old Days

Here is what else I don’t understand: Of the “Big 3” Sports…the high school sports seasons (both start of practice and start of the playing season) of basketball and baseball all start AFTER those of the NBA, NCAA and/or the MLB. Football, though? We start practice three to four weeks BEFORE the NCAA/NFL & our opening weekend of play starts sooner as well (as in weeks. Key the plural form of that word)

 

Using Labor Day Saturday as the start of College ball, us here in KY have already played THREE games before they have played one. By the time the NFL opens up a week later? Four games already played. (Granted, I’m using the Friday’s of those same weekend Saturday’s and Sunday’s, but for the sake of argument)

 

i) Lets take games played, and look at that (I can’t stress this enough, but let’s keep in mind that the PAY is the same or worse than it was some 20-30 years ago :lol2:) while we’re at it. High School baseball doesn’t play anywhere near the amount of games as those in college or MLB. In Basketball we don’t either (well, unless you count the 972 game season played in June. Laugh hoopsters; it’s a joke…or is it?). Football, though? Our State Finalist’s play 15 games, the same amount (I THINK) as NCAA 1-AA, D2 and/or D3 but, not D1.

 

I’ve been told by several (successful coaches, guys who have and could continue to bring so much to so many of young men out there) that the reasons they have gotten out have to do with the time commitment/lack of money made… it simply is not worth it anymore. Not just the time and commitment, but specifically the time and commitment during June and July.

 

There are people a lot smarter than me that might have solutions, and all I’m doing is relaying some Pink Elephants in the room that nobody wants to talk about (one that I agree a great deal with as well).

 

Some thoughts:

• More money for coaches, especially assistants if we continue how things are now.

• Extended Day Pay across the board for all coaches. No extended day pay to compensate time spent in June/July (before start of school)? To heck with it all during those times.

• Still No Extended Day pay? Fine (not really), but set stipends for those certified (teachers) staff as a percentage of their yearly teaching salary (back in the day, this was common practice as well as extended days). This way, there is always a gradual “raise” because their coaching stipends will be adjusted yearly based on their years of experience and/or rank in the classroom. Extended Day pay as well as percentage based stipends are all, but gone.

• Adopt a start of practice/playing/playoff format like those of CT, DE, MA, MI, etc. if no more pay is available. If we start practice August 1st, and Opening Weekend is the week after Labor Day, then allow those first two weeks for a continuation of 7v7 below.

• May= Spring Practice for all & 7v7. Max of 20 practices & 5 7v7 Days

• From the time school is out, lets say June 1- July 31st. If you want to have the weight room open a few days a week for all of those weeks outside of Dead Period? Fire on it. If there are 7 total coaches on staff, let each coach have a week they are responsible for supervising the weight room and that be that for the summer for them.

• Put the balls up. Go home. Let the kids get away from you, and you/your staff get away from the kids. Go be with your own kids and own family, instead of your football family. Small colleges do it and their coaches make a living just coaching.

Edited February 17, 201610 yr by Harry Doyle

^^^^^ great post :thumb:

 

Sad to say this will be the case in the haves and have nots will just grow.

Two things IMO

 

1) Lack of pay.. Compared to pay scales in other states, coaches in KY get paid very low!

2) Lack of respect for authority. I have seen parents and players both have a lack of respect for their head coach.

If you do number 3 (eliminating federal influence), then rural districts, especially, will lose a lot of money.

Edited February 18, 201610 yr by GCHS