The administration at Lexington Catholic, if I remember correctly, dipped into a fund to cover tuition costs for students whose families couldn't or wouldn't make their tuition payments on time ... a good portion of them were athletes.

 

From my understanding, there is a thought with the KHSAA that LC has been involved in several/few illegal activities and cannot prove it.

 

To address the above statements here is a refresher with some FACTS, not 3rd or 4th hand stories:

 

http://www.lexingtoncatholic.com/media/releases/KHSAA/OPED.doc

Very true, KyTmcNcc, and particularly so when those lies are repeated by and heard by those viewing matters through the jaundiced eyes of envy.

 

Our system rests firmly on the premise that all are innocent of wrongdoing until proven otherwise. I don't believe that Lexington Catholic is excluded from that right although its detractors appear to believe so. Of course, success tends to bring envy and attack.

 

Our Rose Hill girls lost to Lexington Catholic in the championship game solely because LexCath was a superior team. That realization allows us to take pride in the fact that our girls were second only to a team that was top five in the nation and that has dominated girls's basketball in the Commonwealth in recent years. It sure beats snipping at and trying to find fault with a successful program in order to make us look better. Actually, such conduct only makes one look like a poor loser and whiner. Those who resort to such actions would be better served to work a little harder to become more competitive. At least, that is how our girls are handling it.

Very true, KyTmcNcc, and particularly so when those lies are repeated by and heard by those viewing matters through the jaundiced eyes of envy.

 

Our system rests firmly on the premise that all are innocent of wrongdoing until proven otherwise. I don't believe that Lexington Catholic is excluded from that right although its detractors appear to believe so. Of course, success tends to bring envy and attack.

 

Our Rose Hill girls lost to Lexington Catholic in the championship game solely because LexCath was a superior team. That realization allows us to take pride in the fact that our girls were second only to a team that was top five in the nation and that has dominated girls's basketball in the Commonwealth in recent years. It sure beats snipping at and trying to find fault with a successful program in order to make us look better. Actually, such conduct only makes one look like a poor loser and whiner. Those who resort to such actions would be better served to work a little harder to become more competitive. At least, that is how our girls are handling it.

This is the type of comment that peeves public schools.

 

If I could teach classes that supports a foundation of the Christian faith that MOST private schools do, I could possibly draw athletes that private schools do. But alas, this country's Supreme Court has said I cannot, so I will and SHOULD always lose out to the private schools who can do this.

 

If I could draw the best athletes from Harrison, Bracken, Grant, Campbell, Mason, Robertson, and Kenton counties getting some of the very top athletes to all play at my school, then I could be competitive but that does not happen in a public school format.

 

This past season our team did not have a player over 5'10". I believe Lexington Catholic might have had 3 or 4 that was well over 6'0". That is a HUGE advantage.

 

Do some schools need to work harder? Most definitely yes.

 

Will working harder make you competitive with Lex Cath? No.

 

Or I guess you feel that the other 200-some KY girls HS programs have been lazy in their programs over the past 3 years.

To address the above statements here is a refresher with some FACTS, not 3rd or 4th hand stories:

Please tell me where I was mistaken in my assessment of the situation.

This is the type of comment that peeves public schools.

 

If I could teach classes that supports a foundation of the Christian faith that MOST private schools do, I could possibly draw athletes that private schools do. But alas, this country's Supreme Court has said I cannot, so I will and SHOULD always lose out to the private schools who can do this.

 

If I could draw the best athletes from Harrison, Bracken, Grant, Campbell, Mason, Robertson, and Kenton counties getting some of the very top athletes to all play at my school, then I could be competitive but that does not happen in a public school format.

 

This past season our team did not have a player over 5'10". I believe Lexington Catholic might have had 3 or 4 that was well over 6'0". That is a HUGE advantage.

 

Do some schools need to work harder? Most definitely yes.

 

Will working harder make you competitive with Lex Cath? No.

 

Or I guess you feel that the other 200-some KY girls HS programs have been lazy in their programs over the past 3 years.

 

Coach, if Lex Cath can attract students from as far away as Frankfort to attend Lex Cath, why is it in your opinion that Pendleton County can't attract students from neighboring counties?

 

Lets talk about female sports as I think, based on what you have typed on here, that you coached female basketball. If we assume for argument purposes that Pendleton County places the same level of committment to female athletics that the private schools do, and we assume, again for argument purposes, that the coaches and players at Pendleton County work just as hard as they do at the private schools do, can you consider the fact that those private schools have made that level of strong committment for years and in some cases decades and that it is rather folly to expect Pendleton County to immediately catch up with them if Pendleton County has just recently made that committment?

 

Coming directly from KHSAA personnel, a large majority of the public school administrators and coaches pushed back against Title IX (and some continue to do so today unfortunately) but those private schools that were co ed embraced Title IX and actually exceeded the requirements. Likewise, those private schools that were all female, while not covered by Title IX, had for a long time already placed an emphasis on female sports that was sadly lacking at the public schools in order to attract students and stay open. Again I was told the above by KHSAA personnel.

 

If true, is it any wonder that, even for those public schools now working hard, the public schools are still not yet able to compete with those schools that have had programs built for years? Don't lose faith and keep working hard. But to expect the hard work of the last 5 years to overcome overnight the hard work of decades is just not simply realistic. And I think the public schools need to accept some responsibility for ignoring or underfunding female sports for years and years.

 

 

You are right in that some public schools do currently place a strong committment on

I think you are right on target lneck.

I think you are right on target lneck.

 

 

You have to stop agreeing with me or else people are going to think Leatherneck and The Guru are one and the same person:banana:

Coach, if Lex Cath can attract students from as far away as Frankfort to attend Lex Cath, why is it in your opinion that Pendleton County can't attract students from neighboring counties?

 

Lets talk about female sports as I think, based on what you have typed on here, that you coached female basketball. If we assume for argument purposes that Pendleton County places the same level of committment to female athletics that the private schools do, and we assume, again for argument purposes, that the coaches and players at Pendleton County work just as hard as they do at the private schools do, can you consider the fact that those private schools have made that level of strong committment for years and in some cases decades and that it is rather folly to expect Pendleton County to immediately catch up with them if Pendleton County has just recently made that committment?

 

Coming directly from KHSAA personnel, a large majority of the public school administrators and coaches pushed back against Title IX (and some continue to do so today unfortunately) but those private schools that were co ed embraced Title IX and actually exceeded the requirements. Likewise, those private schools that were all female, while not covered by Title IX, had for a long time already placed an emphasis on female sports that was sadly lacking at the public schools in order to attract students and stay open. Again I was told the above by KHSAA personnel.

 

If true, is it any wonder that, even for those public schools now working hard, the public schools are still not yet able to compete with those schools that have had programs built for years? Don't lose faith and keep working hard. But to expect the hard work of the last 5 years to overcome overnight the hard work of decades is just not simply realistic. And I think the public schools need to accept some responsibility for ignoring or underfunding female sports for years and years.

 

 

You are right in that some public schools do currently place a strong committment on

I am sure that it is the nature of the beast in our society for some to resist what Title IX was trying to do. Is that right? Absolutely not. But in our society where people lose their mind for Michelle Wie playing in a men's golfing event, I can see what you are saying happening. I was not involved in that part of it when it was put into place many years ago and cannot accurately comment on it.

 

I don't think the mindset concerning public versus private schools a RURAL county school would ever draw students from surrounding counties like a private school will. I am also being on record of saying, I don't think that is what public schools are designed to do. If they were designed to draw from multiple communities/counties, than control of them would not be in the hands of local school boards.

 

The level of commitment that separates the programs I don't believe is truly from the coaches and/or staff but from the parents. Pendleton County has only a handful of HS basketball players wishing to attend the summer camps that the coaches want to attend this summer. A lack of commitment from the players and parents is where the fault lies in many, many situations. A private school's parents seems to be much more committed, NOT IN EVER CASE, but in an average situation.

 

My position is not "because the privates are doing something wrong." It is because I think the environment of our society creates a GREAT private school system in this country that the public schools cannot consistently compete with.

 

The faith issue is a prime example of that. If there was a feasible Christian school for my children to attend, they would. That is a very ENTICING draw to parents that the Supreme Court says Pendleton County can NEVER compete with.

 

As a result, I hate to see a huge amount of kids hurt because of a system that favors one of the other no matter how hard they work. I simply think there is a system out there that would deemphasis a winner take all mentality and reward kids that are competing in similar situations.

 

The proposals that came out went too far in penalizing kids in my opinion.

 

And I agree with guru in that I think you are right on target considering girls sports and schools/society ignoring them for so long.

Ladiesbballcoach, you present a good argument. However, I don't see the private schools as having any unfair advantages. I believe that all schools, public and private, have certain advantages and certain disadvantages. While LexCath can attract students from a larger geographic area due to having no set boundaries, it suffers because it has no access to the great reservoir of funds available to the public schools. Can you imagine what LexCath (or Rose Hill) could do if it had all of those tax dollars?

 

I think that, instead of continually finding fault, all should recognize the differences between the two approaches to education and realize that those differences cannot be equitably removed. All matters considered, the playing field is probably as "level" as it needs to be and certainly is not "tilted" against the publics. We all need to do our best and work hard realizing that built in differences will always exist and we don't really need the KHSAA or anyone else unfairly damaging either side.

Excellent posts everyone, this is a very nice thread.

 

lbbcoach, I think you made the case for the private side with this statement:

 

"A lack of commitment from the players and parents is where the fault lies in many, many situations. A private school's parents seems to be much more committed, NOT IN EVER CASE, but in an average situation."

 

My point being, out of what I will characterize as necessity, most private schools get near the maximum out of their potential while many public schools fall very short.

 

Also, I think it is important to repeat what lneck said about the amount of time it takes to build a "Rome." Just because a new administration and/or a new coaching staff comes into a public school and starts doing things the "right way" that school can't have the expectation of success (within just a few years) equal to any other schools that have been doing everything the right way for decades.

 

At the end of the day, you cannot penalize private schools because their foresight and commitment have led to a superior product. What you can do is learn from them and improve your own product.

I have also enjoyed the discussion especially since it has not degenerated to name calling.

 

For ScooterBob, trust me when I say that the privates want NO part of the tax dollars that come from Frankfort if strings are attached. The constant changes that the politicians are consistently thrusting on public schools get in the way, a lot of times, with teachers ability to teach.

 

For Guru, I knew I was making the private school argument and concede that fact.

 

My view of the situation is similar to the NCAA situations. There are 3 levels. Certain criteria to be allowed to compete at each level. I don't think NKU feels any less proud of their championships than UK does there. Can NKU consistently compete with UK? Probably never, no matter how much harder they work.

 

As far as improving the product when the problem with the product at the public school level is sometimes if not most times beyond the influence or control of the coaching staff. Commitment or the ability to have a commitment from parents.

 

Please no one jump on me and say I am attacking the private schools because that is NOT my aim. If ALL colleges were all in one level of competition, I would feel the same. It would be unfair for colleges setup as Centre, Thomas More, Transy, etc, to be asked to compete against UK, Ohio State, etc. I don't think it would be best to ask for those schools, Centre, THomas More, Transy etc, to change to be able to compete against UK and Ohio State. Yet, the creation of different levels of competition seems to have worked well with the NCAA. I wonder why the same would not hold true for the KHSAA.

 

The same with a Bracken County, Deming, Augusta consistently competing against a St. X, Trinity, Bishop Brossart or Cov Cath.

 

I simply think there has to be a better system out there that allows more kids to compete and have a chance to feel success.

My view of the situation is similar to the NCAA situations. There are 3 levels. Certain criteria to be allowed to compete at each level. I don't think NKU feels any less proud of their championships than UK does there. Can NKU consistently compete with UK? Probably never, no matter how much harder they work.

 

The one difference between the NCAA and the KHSAA classifications that jumps out immediately is that in the NCAA they are 100% voluntary. A DII or III school can decide to move up, likewise a DI school can move down if they so desire. They are not based on the size of the school, they are based on the level of commitment that the school is willing to put into athletics. Comparing that classification system to the mandatroy classification system in the KHSAA is comparing apples and oranges IMHO. You say that NKU feels no less pride in their championships yet haven't thay on several occasions looked at joining DI? How many people outside of the NKU area can tell you what sports NKU has won NCAA championships in? I know of 1 (women's basketball), are there more? How many people nation wide can tell you how many NCAA championships UK has won? I bring this up because NKU chooses to remain DII. High schools in Kentucky have no choice about how they are classified.

 

I would have no problem with a classification system within the KHSAA that instead of being based solely on the size of the student body (or public/private) was based on the amount of money spent on athletics, graduated squad sizes, numbers of coaches etc. That way small schools that felt they could would be able to play against the big schools if they so desired. As long as the individual schools are the ones to decide which classification they wish to belong to (as in the NCAA) then I say go for it.

Ladiesbballcoach, you are absolutely correct concerning private schools and public dollars. If we accept support from the piper, he will expect to call the tune. That is too large a concession to make for tax dollars.

The one difference between the NCAA and the KHSAA classifications that jumps out immediately is that in the NCAA they are 100% voluntary. A DII or III school can decide to move up, likewise a DI school can move down if they so desire. They are not based on the size of the school, they are based on the level of commitment that the school is willing to put into athletics. Comparing that classification system to the mandatroy classification system in the KHSAA is comparing apples and oranges IMHO. You say that NKU feels no less pride in their championships yet haven't thay on several occasions looked at joining DI? How many people outside of the NKU area can tell you what sports NKU has won NCAA championships in? I know of 1 (women's basketball), are there more? How many people nation wide can tell you how many NCAA championships UK has won? I bring this up because NKU chooses to remain DII. High schools in Kentucky have no choice about how they are classified.

 

I would have no problem with a classification system within the KHSAA that instead of being based solely on the size of the student body (or public/private) was based on the amount of money spent on athletics, graduated squad sizes, numbers of coaches etc. That way small schools that felt they could would be able to play against the big schools if they so desired. As long as the individual schools are the ones to decide which classification they wish to belong to (as in the NCAA) then I say go for it.

I would be intrigued also for the KHSAA to study such an issue that would allow schools to pick and choose where they want to compete.

 

While the NCAA is 100% voluntarily there are strict guidelines to choose which way you want your program to be setup.

I would be intrigued also for the KHSAA to study such an issue that would allow schools to pick and choose where they want to compete.

 

While the NCAA is 100% voluntarily there are strict guidelines to choose which way you want your program to be setup.

My point about this was that it is the school not the NCAA that determines which division they wish to compete in. They do this by deciding for themselves how big of a commitment they wish to make to athletics. DI programs have minimum requirements they must adhere to such as numbers of sports offered, minimum size of facilities, dollars spent on scholarships etc. In fact some schools may have sports competing in more then one division. Bellarmine for instance is DII but they have a Men's Lacrosse team that competes at the DI level. Lewis University does the same with Men's Volleyball.

 

Schools can (and many do IUPUI, IPFW, Albany, Tennessee-Martin) decide to up the ante and move into higher classifications and they can also decide to decrease funding and move into a lower division.