I found it interesting that the team from Florida in the Little League World Series was coached by Danette Bichette. He would not let his son throw curves or breaking balls until the post-season started for Little League. If a former major leaguer realizes the need to keep kids from starting too young, I wish parents would as well.

 

In fact, the announcers during the Little League World Series said they it was being looked at to only allow fastballs and change-ups, no breaking balls or curves.

 

The win at all cost mentality has effectively trickled down to the 8 year old leagues and thus we "need" to teach our young men to throw these pitches that have a possibility of messing them up once they get to high school and beyond.

My son is one of the WV players that had TJS in HS. I can assure it wasn't from overuse. Unfortunately for my son, it was a misdiagnosis. He saw doctors for several years about some elbow pain that started after one particular outing. They all told him it was tendonitis and that he couldn't do any more damage to it by playing. They told him to take some OTC pain relievers and carry on. Finally, after two years of frustration, we took him to a specialist, Dr. Kremchek. Within 5 minutes, he had diagnosed the problem and had him scheduled for an MRI to verify. He had severe damage to the ulnar collateral ligament and required surgery. The surgery revealed that the ligament was totally gone. Part of it had calcified from the initial injury and that in turn shredded the remaining ligament. They removed a segment of tendon from his leg and grafted it to the elbow bones. Two years later, after extensive rehab, he is playing college ball at Georgetown College. The arm, by all indications, it totally healthy. It was a difficult decision to make - whether to have the surgery or not. He could have lived a perfectly normal life without the surgery, but he really wanted the opportunity to play in college and couldn't continue with the pain he was having.

 

Not all of these injuries are from overuse. There are basically two scenarios, the overuse that has been discussed and the one time injury that does the damage. Don't assume that all of these kids are being abused. Coaches, parents and players are more informed than ever and most coaches are pretty conscientious. Personally, I think that these surgeries are more prevalent now because of better medicine. Doctors know what they're looking for and the surgery is more accessable. In my era, they just told you you had a tired arm and sent you home. Who knows how many 40-50 yr olds are running around that would have been TJS candidates. It wasn't an option.

 

 

Thank you for the in depth information. This is very useful to many parents and I am glad you finally got the correct diagnosis. Also glad your son is excelling in college.

Strike3 just wanted to say I agree with you completely on the conditioning factor and doing the arm exercises. This might be helpful to some people out there........I am also currently playing college baseball like spidermans son. We have been outside in the snow. We started practice early january and were outside by the middle of the month. My point here is that not one of our pitchers have had any arm problems................During practice they usually run 20 poles, 10 sprints, streching, jobes, tubing, and abs. Immediately after they throw in a game weather it's 1 inning or 7 innings the pitchers are required ice down and run 10 to 20 poles. Basically seeing this for myself definitely proves that all the the running and exercise work is a must for arm care. Another point I have is warming up. I know in high school all most people do and myself included, you strech out and then just start throwing. I think a lot of arm injuries happen because kids don't warm up properly they just go out there and start throwing. We have a throwing program where not only our pitchers but we all do. It consists of 10 throws one knee throwing, 10 throws glide weight back and no stride, 10 throws glide weight back no stride and follow through with the leg up and over, and then regular tossing for 10 throws. We do this everyday before coach even lets us throw on our own to finish getting loose. While of course your arm is going to get sore throwing everyday. We have over 20 guys and haven't had one arm problem all season. To me this just proves that proper warm up goes along way. This is the best my arm has ever felt. And then with the pitchers doing all of the running and exercises it just goes to show that if you put the work in, take care of your arm, and do things the right way you are definitely doing your arm a blessing.

Strike3 just wanted to say I agree with you completely on the conditioning factor and doing the arm exercises. This might be helpful to some people out there........I am also currently playing college baseball like spidermans son. We have been outside in the snow. We started practice early January and were outside by the middle of the month. My point here is that not one of our pitchers have had any arm problems................During practice they usually run 20 poles, 10 sprints, stretching, jobes, tubing, and abs. Immediately after they throw in a game weather it's 1 inning or 7 innings the pitchers are required ice down and run 10 to 20 poles. Basically seeing this for myself definitely proves that all the the running and exercise work is a must for arm care. Another point I have is warming up. I know in high school all most people do and myself included, you stretch out and then just start throwing. I think a lot of arm injuries happen because kids don't warm up properly they just go out there and start throwing. We have a throwing program where not only our pitchers but we all do. It consists of 10 throws one knee throwing, 10 throws glide weight back and no stride, 10 throws glide weight back no stride and follow through with the leg up and over, and then regular tossing for 10 throws. We do this everyday before coach even lets us throw on our own to finish getting loose. While of course your arm is going to get sore throwing everyday. We have over 20 guys and haven't had one arm problem all season. To me this just proves that proper warm up goes along way. This is the best my arm has ever felt. And then with the pitchers doing all of the running and exercises it just goes to show that if you put the work in, take care of your arm, and do things the right way you are definitely doing your arm a blessing.

Excellent advice WG and thanks. Any time a pitcher can be prepared physically, with proper arm conditioning, cardio, core, legs and have solid pitching mechanics, the risk of injury is greatly reduced at any age.

 

Condition before the season begins and preferably year round with a good throwing program, designed to strengthen the arm and learn muscle memory of proper mechanics.

:thumb: Little League/Knothole/Babe Ruth/Dads are the reasons behind these problems. They've got kids throwing breaking balls in 'C' ball nowadays, and for those unfamiliar with Knothole baseball, that's 8 years old. It's a shame. I coached a fall ball team last year for 'C' ball, and our rules were no breaking balls and pitchers pitched 2 innings max. I saw dad's (one in particular on my team that got under my skin) off to the side working with their kid on how to throw a breaking ball. 8 YEARS OLD.

:thumb: This is very true, it has been years but I have coached youth baseball in the past at all different ages, I would not let a kid under 12-13 yrs. ols even attempt to throw a breaking pitch, in fact - the years I coached Babe Ruth league, I only had a couple that threw them and they were 15yrs. old. I wonder if that kid that his dad was teaching to throw the pitch can still throw a baseball at all or if his arm is gone, depending on his age now I would say that he might have arm problems when he gets to the h.s. level bc of this at a young age. Their arms are just not developed enough for that kind of stress on them. IMO if a youth league coach, say 8-15 yrs. old just teaches change of speed and location of a pitch that is all they will need.

Good Topic as well as the direction this discussion is going re; "proper" throwing related to age. I'm guessing as the season heats up we'll have lots of threads about this.

 

I disagree that its primarily dads pushing the breaking ball stuff too early.

There's always some of the stereotypical "Little League Dads" but in my personal experiences from many youth leagues its often a case of the better players (ie, "arms") being pressured into throwing all these ridiculous breaking pitches by their coaches - and especially related to all star competition [which seems to start now at about age 6 :irked: ]

Too many parents are not educated enough about the issue (other than anecdotal stuff from people they know) to stand their ground, so to speak, when their kid wants to throw it, coaches keep showing it to them or suggesting/asking/telling them to throw it - IF they want to be a "pitcher".

 

Young kids should be taught proper mechanics, location, and change of speed. The so-called authorities out there pushing this junk on kids really tick me off.

 

Cheers, Woody Jr

 

 

 

....still hating those new OSU jerseys :cry:

:thumb: :ylsuper: I agree with that also Woody, some kids are developed further but I still wouldn't take a chance on it - only in rare cases. I coached a coupleof all star teams in the past and Yes, there were kids on that all star team that threw breaking pitches, all but one of them had played for other teams through the regular season and the other one played for me - was developed and could throw it. Even at that that kid threw it more on how he gripped the ball than on turning the arm over/twisting motion. You are right imo in that some of the kids try it from pressure from others like older friends or an older brother. I had a couple of dads suggest it and I just tried to handle it in a way saying something like "your boy has potential to be pretty good and I would rather he not throw or try to throw breaking stuff even though he can". I also agree and posted in my earlier post on this thread that change of speeds, pitch location is MUCH more important at those ages.Doesn't matter what you can throw if you can't get it over the plate:thumb:

No kid should be throwing breaking stuff in knothole baseball, the human arm isn't designed for overhand abuse, and curves and sliders just add to the injury.

My son is one of the WV players that had TJS in HS. I can assure it wasn't from overuse. Unfortunately for my son, it was a misdiagnosis. He saw doctors for several years about some elbow pain that started after one particular outing. They all told him it was tendonitis and that he couldn't do any more damage to it by playing. They told him to take some OTC pain relievers and carry on. Finally, after two years of frustration, we took him to a specialist, Dr. Kremchek. Within 5 minutes, he had diagnosed the problem and had him scheduled for an MRI to verify. He had severe damage to the ulnar collateral ligament and required surgery. The surgery revealed that the ligament was totally gone. Part of it had calcified from the initial injury and that in turn shredded the remaining ligament. They removed a segment of tendon from his leg and grafted it to the elbow bones. Two years later, after extensive rehab, he is playing college ball at Georgetown College. The arm, by all indications, it totally healthy. It was a difficult decision to make - whether to have the surgery or not. He could have lived a perfectly normal life without the surgery, but he really wanted the opportunity to play in college and couldn't continue with the pain he was having.

 

Not all of these injuries are from overuse. There are basically two scenarios, the overuse that has been discussed and the one time injury that does the damage. Don't assume that all of these kids are being abused. Coaches, parents and players are more informed than ever and most coaches are pretty conscientious. Personally, I think that these surgeries are more prevalent now because of better medicine. Doctors know what they're looking for and the surgery is more accessable. In my era, they just told you you had a tired arm and sent you home. Who knows how many 40-50 yr olds are running around that would have been TJS candidates. It wasn't an option.

 

I know a kid this happened to as a 12 year old during a very successful AABC campaign, after a few years of dominating at the knothole level. Complete tear of the ulnar ligament, basicly releasing the ulnar nerve to rub on the bone--Very painful and makes the entire lower arm and hand go totally numb!! Dr. Kremchek said TJS would fix this, but actually strongly recommended not operating (I was impressed since that's how he makes his living) on a kid that young and suggested rest and not pitching for several months. He came back the next season, pitched for a couple more seasons; but was never the same as before, and unfortunately has now given up the game. Don't think he ever trusted the arm again.

No kid should be throwing breaking stuff in knothole baseball, the human arm isn't designed for overhand abuse, and curves and sliders just add to the injury.

:thumb:

A good friend of mine has a son who currently pitches in high school. He was very strict about not letting his son throw or even try certain pitches until he reached a certain age. He said that he had seen too many kids mess up their arms just because a coach or dad wanted to give their kid 'a headstart' when their bodies just weren't ready for that yet. His son is doing quite well and has progressed slowly each and every season he has played and learned how to throw the other pitches when he was more mature and able to handle it.