Saw how you worked this in….classic:ylsuper:

 

LOL...It was mentioned in a previous post on this thread.

Got hosed twice IMO. I would not have had a foul on the missed FT with 5 seconds left nor a foul on the pass.

Clyde: I heard but cannot say first hand that Joe B. Hall expressed concerns about these plays on his radio program with Denny Crum. I can't confirm with any google searches though so just hearsay. Also was told that the Trinity players were totally cool & acted like gentlemen, congratulated MC, & went into the locker room, where the organizer of the Joe B Hall event apologized to them & praised them for their behavior. Wish I could document this but can't; these matters were mentioned at Trinity's assembly in April to celebrate the team. So it goes.

I'm with PP and VOR on this one. Yes, there have been any number of blown calls at the end of games.

 

But the old school in me says you should have made another play or two along the way so you wouldn't be in a position to lose.

 

Then who is in control of the game? If the refs aren't, then Whimsy is. Old school says you ref & play your hardest & correct as refs your errors when at all possible. Most of these kids will not advance even to D3. They remember these games forever & they never get calloused enough to say breezily refs are human. So is the surgeon removing your festered appendix. So he gashes your colon, sews you up, & you die of septicemia in a couple days. Well, surgeons are human, right? So rude-word what? All we have to do in life is perform at C/satisfactory level. C is competent, good, ok. Refs, surgeons, parents, teachers who don't get no pass from me, a retired teacher.

Then who is in control of the game? If the refs aren't, then Whimsy is. Old school says you ref & play your hardest & correct as refs your errors when at all possible. Most of these kids will not advance even to D3. They remember these games forever & they never get calloused enough to say breezily refs are human. So is the surgeon removing your festered appendix. So he gashes your colon, sews you up, & you die of septicemia in a couple days. Well, surgeons are human, right? So rude-word what? All we have to do in life is perform at C/satisfactory level. C is competent, good, ok. Refs, surgeons, parents, teachers who don't get no pass from me, a retired teacher.

 

Wow, you are okay comparing a high school ref that most likely does it part time to someone that dedicated 12 years of his life to be a surgeon? You use that analogy and I'll give you one. What if you compare that ref to weather man? Now how's the ref doing. Or a politician?

 

My point is...We need to quit blaming refs for losses and providing excuses for our kids to use. Teams can adapt and I bet you they made plenty of mistakes to get themselves in to that position to put it in the hands of the ref. Control what you can control and deal with the rest as it comes. Adapt and play ball.

I hate the you should have done something else to keep from being in that position line of thought.

 

Sometimes teams are doing all they can against a superior team, then one blown call and they lose.

 

Softball for example, some of the pitchers are almost unhittable. A team may only get one or two chances a game to drive a pitch, then a blown call absolutely cost them a game.

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I hate the you should have done something else to keep from being in that position line of thought.

 

Sometimes teams are doing all they can against a superior team, then one blown call and they lose.

 

Softball for example, some of the pitchers are almost unhittable. A team may only get one or two chances a game to drive a pitch, then a blown call absolutely cost them a game.

 

There are definitely exceptions to just about any rule. But for the most part, I don't blame the refs. Too many people provide excuses and I don't like to use refs or any other figure as an excuse. Yes, occasionally you have done all you can and human error injects itself. It may not by fun or fair, but that's life and even kids need to learn how to deal with it.

Wow, you are okay comparing a high school ref that most likely does it part time to someone that dedicated 12 years of his life to be a surgeon? You use that analogy and I'll give you one. What if you compare that ref to weather man? Now how's the ref doing. Or a politician?

 

My point is...We need to quit blaming refs for losses and providing excuses for our kids to use. Teams can adapt and I bet you they made plenty of mistakes to get themselves in to that position to put it in the hands of the ref. Control what you can control and deal with the rest as it comes. Adapt and play ball.

 

How about this analogy? The fry cook that keeps burning the food or the part-time waiter that routinely screws up your order? They didn't go to school at all to be trained for their jobs. Yet the public, and as a result their employer, demand a certain level of competency in exchange for continued employment. That's called accountability, something that's missing in the officiating profession.

 

People have mentioned things such as missed defensive assignments and missed shots. By design, the game consists of 2 coaches and teams trying to prevent each other from being successful at guarding each other and scoring. The refs don't face an opponent. Bad comparison.

 

I'm not saying that one questionable/bad call at the end of a game loses a game for a team. Pretty sure most coaches would take a game with just one bad call. It's all of the bad calls throughout, compounded by that final bad call, that fuel the fire. It's the overall quality of officiating that is the real issue. If you go any deeper than just a handful of officials in any region, it gets pretty bad. It really prevents the game from being enjoyable for both the players and the fans. And that's a shame.

I'm

 

There are definitely exceptions to just about any rule. But for the most part, I don't blame the refs. Too many people provide excuses and I don't like to use refs or any other figure as an excuse. Yes, occasionally you have done all you can and human error injects itself. It may not by fun or fair, but that's life and even kids need to learn how to deal with it.

 

I agree 100%...my only point was sometimes a team did all that was realistically possible... they didn't have that one more play in them.

How about this analogy? The fry cook that keeps burning the food or the part-time waiter that routinely screws up your order? They didn't go to school at all to be trained for their jobs. Yet the public, and as a result their employer, demand a certain level of competency in exchange for continued employment. That's called accountability, something that's missing in the officiating profession.

 

People have mentioned things such as missed defensive assignments and missed shots. By design, the game consists of 2 coaches and teams trying to prevent each other from being successful at guarding each other and scoring. The refs don't face an opponent. Bad comparison.

 

I'm not saying that one questionable/bad call at the end of a game loses a game for a team. Pretty sure most coaches would take a game with just one bad call. It's all of the bad calls throughout, compounded by that final bad call, that fuel the fire. It's the overall quality of officiating that is the real issue. If you go any deeper than just a handful of officials in any region, it gets pretty bad. It really prevents the game from being enjoyable for both the players and the fans. And that's a shame.

 

So you're going to generalize and say all refs are the same. They all deserve to be thrashed for a very few bad calls that may have affected the outcome? How many times does it REALLY happen. Society always wants to look at the couple times it happens and easily forgets about the countless times it doesn't. That's the problem. Accountability you mention...why don't others take accountability for not performing up to par, instead of always blaming refs. It's too easy to blame the refs and we (a society) in this day and age constantly create excuses for our youth as to why "it's okay". "You didn't do anything wrong Johnny. Those darn refs had it out for you!"

 

You talk about calls adding up over a game. Well were they adding up against the other team too? Or were they one-sided? Because if they were one-sided, I said I didn't agree with them. But if the refs were bad for both sides, then it probably equaled out and the refs (as bad as they may have been) still didn't lose that game for you. I agree, it doesn't make it okay for the refs to be bad, the the topic is, did they lose the game for you? They did not if they were equally bad.

 

The other thing I see is there are A LOT of people that don't really know all the detaisl regarding the rules. They argue things that are totally incorrect. This also leads to the perception of poor reffing. It's like a plague when someone screams about the refs. Everyone follows suit and it becomes urban myth. "yea, the refs stunk!". Again, it's really easy to use that as an excuse because everyone will believe you and it doesn't hold anyone accountable but "the enemy".

 

Again, control what you can control. Teach kids to overcome obstacles they can't control. I don't care what sport or what level, you are going to have refs/umps that aren't the greatest and will make mistakes. Should kids just quit or should they have the attitude that they aren't going to let that effect them and may have to dig a little deeper to overcome a mistake by something they can't control. I know what I want my kids to do. If kids constantly hear that refs stink, what do you think they are going to do when they need someone to blame for their own poor performance? You will NEVER hear me tell my team that the ref cost us the game. I don't care what I think or believe, it will never come out of my mouth. And when the kids start on it, it gets addressed immediately. We control what we can. Life isn't fair all the time.

So you're going to generalize and say all refs are the same. They all deserve to be thrashed for a very few bad calls that may have affected the outcome? How many times does it REALLY happen. Society always wants to look at the couple times it happens and easily forgets about the countless times it doesn't. That's the problem. Accountability you mention...why don't others take accountability for not performing up to par, instead of always blaming refs. It's too easy to blame the refs and we (a society) in this day and age constantly create excuses for our youth as to why "it's okay". "You didn't do anything wrong Johnny. Those darn refs had it out for you!"

 

You talk about calls adding up over a game. Well were they adding up against the other team too? Or were they one-sided? Because if they were one-sided, I said I didn't agree with them. But if the refs were bad for both sides, then it probably equaled out and the refs (as bad as they may have been) still didn't lose that game for you. I agree, it doesn't make it okay for the refs to be bad, the the topic is, did they lose the game for you? They did not if they were equally bad.

 

The other thing I see is there are A LOT of people that don't really know all the detaisl regarding the rules. They argue things that are totally incorrect. This also leads to the perception of poor reffing. It's like a plague when someone screams about the refs. Everyone follows suit and it becomes urban myth. "yea, the refs stunk!". Again, it's really easy to use that as an excuse because everyone will believe you and it doesn't hold anyone accountable but "the enemy".

 

Again, control what you can control. Teach kids to overcome obstacles they can't control. I don't care what sport or what level, you are going to have refs/umps that aren't the greatest and will make mistakes. Should kids just quit or should they have the attitude that they aren't going to let that effect them and may have to dig a little deeper to overcome a mistake by something they can't control. I know what I want my kids to do. If kids constantly hear that refs stink, what do you think they are going to do when they need someone to blame for their own poor performance? You will NEVER hear me tell my team that the ref cost us the game. I don't care what I think or believe, it will never come out of my mouth. And when the kids start on it, it gets addressed immediately. We control what we can. Life isn't fair all the time.

 

There are a lot of selfish refs period. They are human. But it seems that some refs like to be the deciding factor in games with certain calls that stops momentum for teams in games. Or the ref that has to be the one who makes the call at the end to decide outcomes.

Have refs lost or cost teams a game? Abso-freaking-lutely. Have they cost my teams games by either frequent bad calls or from being forced to eat some "home cooking"? You better believe it. Have I ever blamed any of those losses on the refs, especially to the kids? Never.

 

Here is the belief I have always held...if you put yourself in a position for a bad call(s) to decide the game, then your team hasn't played well enough to win. Bad refing/getting bad calls is no different than the other team having a great player. You have to work hard to overcome them and sometimes it's just part of the game.

 

I have a couple of kids on my varsity team that think the refs are to blame for everything bad and are constantly complaining and don't understand it's just another obstacle to overcome. I'm about ready to bury my foot in their backsides.

All we have to do in life is perform at C/satisfactory level. C is competent, good, ok. Refs, surgeons, parents, teachers who don't get no pass from me, a retired teacher.

 

Good thing all we are looking for is a C average from our retired teachers.....I believe you may have meant to say: do not get a pass from me or shall not recieve a pass from me, but I got a C in English so what do I know ?

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I'll be honest - this was the very first thing I thought of when seeing the thread title.

 

I typically fall into the camp that others have echoed in that the players are the ones deciding the game and that there are any number of plays that cut both ways through the course of the game that basically evens it all out. But there are times when non-judgment calls do cost a team and I think it is fair at that point to say that yes, an official cost them the game, or at the very least an opportunity to win. The picture photo is one. That's not a judgment call. That should have been a good basket and the failure of the officials to call it as such denied Holmes an additional OT period to continue their attempt to win. It's that black and white.

As for the softball example...We just happen to play next and were warming up behind that very outfield fence. Where my girls were warming up, we could have caught the ball. But again, JC did not have a hit until that point...2 outs in the bottom of the 7th. So did the ump cost them that game? Or should they have hit better in the 1-6th innings???

 

It was a very unfortunate event and we felt HORRIBLE for the young lady who hit the ball. We tried to get involved because we were right there, but they weren't having any of that...which I don't blame them. But again, a horrible call at a horrible time...but could have been a non -factor if they would have hit at all during the other 20 outs.

 

I agree totally they could have done more during the game but that is how baseball/softball plays. You could be down the whole game and one hit wins the game. Happens much more than a winning 3pt shot that wins the game.