October 22, 201411 yr I agree that we overvalue post season success. For example, if Wes Welker does not drop a pass in Super Bowl a few years back, Brady has another Super Bowl win and Eli has one instead of two. However, if we are going to give Peyton all the credit for his regular season wins, he deserves some criticism for his post season losses. The fact is he is just not the same player in the playoffs as he is in the regular season - he just is not. Again, he is one of my favorite players in any sport but he has a losing record in the post season (just looked it up... 11-12). He averages less touchdown passes, more interceptions and has a lower passer rating in the playoffs than in the regular season. It does make for a great debate. For example, who is better, Peyton or Joe Montana? Peyton has had a longer career but in his prime, Montana was awesome and he was better in the playoffs than in the regular season. But he had Jerry Rice too... Interesting debate... Manning should be criticized for postseason performance but for me his perceived lack of success doesn't disqualify him from being the best QB ever. Watching what he is doing now with a new neck weighs in on that decision for me. For me Manning is #1 and Favre is #2. Great debate for sure. One of my favorites. Montana's teams were loaded. I've always felt that Brady>Montana. Brady is my #3.
October 22, 201411 yr Call me when Manning plays in 321 straight. He played 227 straight until neck injury good for the second longest streak, I think. Call me when Farve throws for a combined 10,000 yards over two seasons I love Farve, but Manning is simply better.
October 22, 201411 yr Manning should be criticized for postseason performance but for me his perceived lack of success doesn't disqualify him from being the best QB ever. Watching what he is doing now with a new neck weighs in on that decision for me. For me Manning is #1 and Favre is #2. You are dead on! Some people said in the Clayton Kershaw thread that you can't criticize him for bad Post Season Performance year in and year out because in the playoffs you face the best teams. I guess that same thinking doesn't work for football...that's all people hang their Manning criticism on...I guess because that's really the only thing he can be criticized for.
October 22, 201411 yr DeMarius Thomas talked about how much better Peyton has made him. Go back and look at his stats prior to Manning's arrival. Did Thomas and other Receivers make Manning Great or does Manning make his WR's Great!
October 22, 201411 yr You are dead on! Some people said in the Clayton Kershaw thread that you can't criticize him for bad Post Season Performance year in and year out because in the playoffs you face the best teams. I guess that same thinking doesn't work for football...that's all people hang their Manning criticism on...I guess because that's really the only thing he can be criticized for. I love Manning and am not criticizing but when people start saying a guy is the GOAT, you better be able to back it up. You can make a strong case that Peyton is not even the best of his generation, let alone the best of all time. Tom Brady has a better regular season winning percentage, a better regular season TD/INT ratio, a better playoff TD/INT ratio, is 18-8 in the playoffs compared to 11-12 for Peyton, has a 3-2 Super Bowl record compared to a 1-2 for Peyton (and could easily have two more as both of the ones he lost could have went either way). Don't get me wrong, I LOVE everything about Peyton but his one Achilles heel is his playoff record. And it is not just that his teams have not played well. HE has had some brutal playoff games as well. He is a first ballot HOFer for sure and one of the all time greats. However, I have a hard time saying he is better than Brady (keep in mind that Brady has not had great receivers for much of his career too).
October 22, 201411 yr I love Manning and am not criticizing but when people start saying a guy is the GOAT, you better be able to back it up. You can make a strong case that Peyton is not even the best of his generation, let alone the best of all time. Tom Brady has a better regular season winning percentage, a better regular season TD/INT ratio, a better playoff TD/INT ratio, is 18-8 in the playoffs compared to 11-12 for Peyton, has a 3-2 Super Bowl record compared to a 1-2 for Peyton (and could easily have two more as both of the ones he lost could have went either way). Don't get me wrong, I LOVE everything about Peyton but his one Achilles heel is his playoff record. And it is not just that his teams have not played well. HE has had some brutal playoff games as well. He is a first ballot HOFer for sure and one of the all time greats. However, I have a hard time saying he is better than Brady (keep in mind that Brady has not had great receivers for much of his career too). Don't act like Brady didn't have some really good teams around him...those teams won without him as easily has they won with him. Brady is great and may be the GOAT, but I get tired of people saying that he played on bad teams...his coach has one of the highest winning percentages in NFL History, because he (the Coach) is smarter at football than just about everyone else. While picking and choosing stats you left a few out... Career QBR...Manning 97.7 to 95.8 Career TD...Manning 510 to 372 Total Passing Yards...Manning 66,800 to 50,800 (46 more games played) Comp %...Manning 65.5 to 63.4 Sacked...Manning 278 to 356 (Manning has played 46 more games and sacked far less) INT %...Brady 2.0% to 2.6% Plays >20yds...Manning 818 to 620 Plays >40yds...Manning 144 to 116 Edited October 22, 201411 yr by Jumper_Dad
October 22, 201411 yr Don't act like Brady didn't have some really good teams around him...those teams won without him as easily has they won with him. Brady is great and may be the GOAT, but I get tired of people saying that he played on bad teams...his coach has one of the highest winning percentages in NFL History, because he (the Coach) is smarter at football than just about everyone else. When did I say that Brady played on bad teams? I said he played with average AT BEST receivers most of his career (like this year). The year he had a great receiver (Moss) they went 16-0. BTW, you may find this interesting. Belichick's record before Brady was 6-10, 7-9, 7-9, 11-5, 5-11 (all in Cleveland) and 5-11 (first year in NE). That totals up to 41-55. Since Brady became his QB, his record is 167-52. Seems like Belichick got a whole lot smarter when Brady got to New England... And Brady (like Peyton) is the consummate company man. Belichick in his GM role has made some very questionable trades (Mankins this year, Welker last year and others) that really had to tick off Brady but he has kept his mouth shut.
October 22, 201411 yr When did I say that Brady played on bad teams? I said he played with average AT BEST receivers most of his career (like this year). The year he had a great receiver (Moss) they went 16-0. BTW, you may find this interesting. Belichick's record before Brady was 6-10, 7-9, 7-9, 11-5, 5-11 (all in Cleveland) and 5-11 (first year in NE). That totals up to 41-55. Since Brady became his QB, his record is 167-52. Seems like Belichick got a whole lot smarter when Brady got to New England... And Brady (like Peyton) is the consummate company man. Belichick in his GM role has made some very questionable trades (Mankins this year, Welker last year and others) that really had to tick off Brady but he has kept his mouth shut. ..those teams won without him as easily has they won with him. How can you possibly say New England "won without him as easily as they won with him"? I don't understand that at all. If you think I am ripping Peyton, I am not. I just don't want to underestimate how great Brady is too. Edited October 22, 201411 yr by PurplePride92 Fixed quote tags
October 22, 201411 yr DeMarius Thomas talked about how much better Peyton has made him. Go back and look at his stats prior to Manning's arrival. Did Thomas and other Receivers make Manning Great or does Manning make his WR's Great! Marvin Harrison-First Rounder Reggie Wayne-First Rounder Dallas Clark-First Rounder Demaryius Thomas-First Rounder Decker-3rd Rounder Stokley and Orange Julius-both 4th rounders.
October 22, 201411 yr I've been off BGP for a few days, but I can't believe there's no mention of the receivers playing keep-away with the record setting ball. Hilarious .
October 22, 201411 yr Marvin Harrison-First Rounder Reggie Wayne-First Rounder Dallas Clark-First Rounder Demaryius Thomas-First Rounder Decker-3rd Rounder Stokley and Orange Julius-both 4th rounders. Nobody said they weren't talented. Check the before and after Manning stats. That tells the true story.
October 22, 201411 yr How can you possibly say New England "won without him as easily as they won with him"? I don't understand that at all. If you think I am ripping Peyton, I am not. I just don't want to underestimate how great Brady is too. Matt Cassell went 11-5 when Brady went down. Tom Brady played on better teams than Peyton and Tom Brady had better coaches than Peyton Manning.
October 22, 201411 yr Matt Cassell went 11-5 when Brady went down. Tom Brady played on better teams than Peyton and Tom Brady had better coaches than Peyton Manning. This Plus what was the Colts record without Manning when he went down the first year?
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