Question(s) for our umps

[CincySportsFan]

My son is playing fall ball in the NKBaseball league right now, and had a couple of situations come up in today's game, that I'm interested in getting some other umps' opinions on.

 

Situation #1: Left handed batter at plate (although it really doesn't matter what side he hits from). Pitcher throws a pitch that a.) is up and in (around the neck area), and b.) isn't really that fast (guessing 40-45 mph). Batter...instead of ducking or moving out of the way...brings right hand off of bat, and catches ball. And, I don't mean he deflected it, or used his hand to shield his face. He flat out caught the ball barehanded. Ump awards batter first base, due to being "hit by the ball". Right call?

 

Situation #2: Going to post a rule listed on the website...

 

16. Players are not allowed to bait, taunt & are required to be good sports at all times. Failure to maintain this high level of sportsmanship is to result in ejection from the game. Encouragement for your own team is to be the focus of all concerned with the game. This is a local rule and stems from the league's use of High School certified umpires. At the high school level, this is a rule that calls for immediate ejection when violated. The ejection removes the player from that game and the next game. The umpire may recommend further suspension based on the severity of the situation.

 

At various times (when they were batting), there were several situations where their baserunner would be clapping their hands after the pitcher went into his stretch, and a couple of times they even were chattering at him. Also, everytime they were at bat, there were non-stop cheerleading chants coming from their dugout. Most of the time, I guess you could say, it was focused "on their team". But, anytime the count got to 3 balls, they would switch to "what's he gonna do...walk him, walk him!" Which, to me, is talking about the pitcher.

 

After three innings of this we mentioned something to the umpire about this, and he said as long as they weren't mentioning the pitcher by name, it was okay. I find this hard to believe, as the majority of teams don't know any of the players on the other teams by name. But, I find it hard to believe you can talk about a specific position, and say it's not directed at that particular player. Thoughts?

[price499]

My son is playing fall ball in the NKBaseball league right now, and had a couple of situations come up in today's game, that I'm interested in getting some other umps' opinions on.

 

Situation #1: Left handed batter at plate (although it really doesn't matter what side he hits from). Pitcher throws a pitch that a.) is up and in (around the neck area), and b.) isn't really that fast (guessing 40-45 mph). Batter...instead of ducking or moving out of the way...brings right hand off of bat, and catches ball. And, I don't mean he deflected it, or used his hand to shield his face. He flat out caught the ball barehanded. Ump awards batter first base, due to being "hit by the ball". Right call?

 

Situation #2: Going to post a rule listed on the website...

 

16. Players are not allowed to bait, taunt & are required to be good sports at all times. Failure to maintain this high level of sportsmanship is to result in ejection from the game. Encouragement for your own team is to be the focus of all concerned with the game. This is a local rule and stems from the league's use of High School certified umpires. At the high school level, this is a rule that calls for immediate ejection when violated. The ejection removes the player from that game and the next game. The umpire may recommend further suspension based on the severity of the situation.

 

At various times (when they were batting), there were several situations where their baserunner would be clapping their hands after the pitcher went into his stretch, and a couple of times they even were chattering at him. Also, everytime they were at bat, there were non-stop cheerleading chants coming from their dugout. Most of the time, I guess you could say, it was focused "on their team". But, anytime the count got to 3 balls, they would switch to "what's he gonna do...walk him, walk him!" Which, to me, is talking about the pitcher.

 

After three innings of this we mentioned something to the umpire about this, and he said as long as they weren't mentioning the pitcher by name, it was okay. I find this hard to believe, as the majority of teams don't know any of the players on the other teams by name. But, I find it hard to believe you can talk about a specific position, and say it's not directed at that particular player. Thoughts?

 

The first situation is a tough one. I have never seen or heard that happen before. The second situation is fine. The "walk him, walk him" chant has been around for quite awhile and so has the clapping hands while on the base paths. I agree with the umpire, but if (like you said) they were saying names I would take offense to that. That's when I would say something. But if they were just clapping or doing the "3-2 whatcha gonna do, walk him, walk him" chant then they are fine.

[CincySportsFan]

The first situation is a tough one. I have never seen or heard that happen before. The second situation is fine. The "walk him, walk him" chant has been around for quite awhile and so has the clapping hands while on the base paths. I agree with the umpire, but if (like you said) they were saying names I would take offense to that. That's when I would say something. But if they were just clapping or doing the "3-2 whatcha gonna do, walk him, walk him" chant then they are fine.

 

No, they never called our pitcher by name. (Perhaps I didn't write that correctly.)

 

But, based upon what you put, is it okay for the defenders to do the "hey batter, batter...swing"? Or, is okay for the catcher to try to distract the batter while he's in the box? And just so you know, I'm not trying to be sarcastic here...I really do want to know.

 

I guess I'm just really, really, really old school, and would rather play the game between the foul lines than between the ears of 11 year olds. And, I thought that's what the "encouragement for your own team is to be the focus of all concerned" portion of the rule spoke to. That's where my confusion lies.

[Just Jim]

I'm not an ump (as you can probably tell from my soon to be answers).

I would call the batter out on "batter's interference".

On the chatter/clapping. If you are trying to get them ready for highschool ball, then this is should be a non issue. Get them to block out distractions and make the other team "shut up" by out playing them. If you are just playing for funsies then it might be an issue.

[price499]

No, they never called our pitcher by name. (Perhaps I didn't write that correctly.)

 

But, based upon what you put, is it okay for the defenders to do the "hey batter, batter...swing"? Or, is okay for the catcher to try to distract the batter while he's in the box? And just so you know, I'm not trying to be sarcastic here...I really do want to know.

 

I guess I'm just really, really, really old school, and would rather play the game between the foul lines than between the ears of 11 year olds. And, I thought that's what the "encouragement for your own team is to be the focus of all concerned" portion of the rule spoke to. That's where my confusion lies.

 

Yeah I don't like when opposing teams do it either but just like what Just Jim said you have to learn how to block out distractions...

[Clyde]

My son is playing fall ball in the NKBaseball league right now, and had a couple of situations come up in today's game, that I'm interested in getting some other umps' opinions on.

 

Situation #1: Left handed batter at plate (although it really doesn't matter what side he hits from). Pitcher throws a pitch that a.) is up and in (around the neck area), and b.) isn't really that fast (guessing 40-45 mph). Batter...instead of ducking or moving out of the way...brings right hand off of bat, and catches ball. And, I don't mean he deflected it, or used his hand to shield his face. He flat out caught the ball barehanded. Ump awards batter first base, due to being "hit by the ball". Right call?

 

Situation #2: Going to post a rule listed on the website...

 

16. Players are not allowed to bait, taunt & are required to be good sports at all times. Failure to maintain this high level of sportsmanship is to result in ejection from the game. Encouragement for your own team is to be the focus of all concerned with the game. This is a local rule and stems from the league's use of High School certified umpires. At the high school level, this is a rule that calls for immediate ejection when violated. The ejection removes the player from that game and the next game. The umpire may recommend further suspension based on the severity of the situation.

 

At various times (when they were batting), there were several situations where their baserunner would be clapping their hands after the pitcher went into his stretch, and a couple of times they even were chattering at him. Also, everytime they were at bat, there were non-stop cheerleading chants coming from their dugout. Most of the time, I guess you could say, it was focused "on their team". But, anytime the count got to 3 balls, they would switch to "what's he gonna do...walk him, walk him!" Which, to me, is talking about the pitcher.

 

After three innings of this we mentioned something to the umpire about this, and he said as long as they weren't mentioning the pitcher by name, it was okay. I find this hard to believe, as the majority of teams don't know any of the players on the other teams by name. But, I find it hard to believe you can talk about a specific position, and say it's not directed at that particular player. Thoughts?

 

There is a rule regarding getting hit and effort to avoid it. However, most umpires are going to give any and all benefit of the doubt to the batter. Hard to answer without seeing it but I'd guess 9/10 times the kid is getting first base.

 

Nothing on the bench jockeying.

[nkuclubbaseball19]

There is a rule regarding getting hit and effort to avoid it. However, most umpires are going to give any and all benefit of the doubt to the batter. Hard to answer without seeing it but I'd guess 9/10 times the kid is getting first base.

 

Nothing on the bench jockeying.

 

Glad you said "most" and not all because I can point to a big situation where the benefit of the doubt most definitely was not given to the batter.

[rjs4470]

Glad you said "most" and not all because I can point to a big situation where the benefit of the doubt most definitely was not given to the batter.

 

And I've seen batters not get awarded first base after getting hit more in the last two years than I saw over my entire youth, high school, college and semi pro baseball career. It seems to have been a point of emphasis over the last two years here in Kentucky. I don't think anyone could argue with the ump not awarding first base in the case described where the batter just caught the ball.

[JBCousins]

To be clear, the ball would have hit him had he done nothing, right? I'm assuming yes, so then, yes, he gets first base. Or was it just "up and in"?

[rjs4470]

To be clear, the ball would have hit him had he done nothing, right? I'm assuming yes, so then, yes, he gets first base. Or was it just "up and in"?

 

According to the rule, you have to do "something".....you have to make some sort of attempt to avoid being hit by the pitch. Now for most, just a twitch is enough. But I would think if the batter is actually able to catch the ball, I would think that's not really trying to avoid being hit.

[baseball4ever]

According to the rule, you have to do "something".....you have to make some sort of attempt to avoid being hit by the pitch. Now for most, just a twitch is enough. But I would think if the batter is actually able to catch the ball, I would think that's not really trying to avoid being hit.

 

The rule does state the batter must make an attempt to get out of the way. But there is a scenario where you can get hit and it be a strike. If you are attempting to swing at the ball and it hits you then it is called a strike. This happens a lot when people get hit on the hands with them moving forward through the zone. It is a hit by pitch when trying to turn away from or making an effort to get out of the way.

[JBCousins]

According to the rule, you have to do "something".....you have to make some sort of attempt to avoid being hit by the pitch. Now for most, just a twitch is enough. But I would think if the batter is actually able to catch the ball, I would think that's not really trying to avoid being hit.

 

At that age, if it's coming right at them, a lot of them don't know how to react. If it's coming directly at them and it hits them, they get first base. My question was, did he catch it in front of him because it was going to hit him or out in front of him and he would not have been hit.

[JBCousins]

As to the second point, I'd like to see something done to tone that down--especially if you are promoting that on your website. Something simple from the ump, "Hey, cheer for YOUR guy." Hard to say how bad it was since I wasn't there but if they are 7-10 years old (guessing) then maybe try to cut down on it a little bit.

[rjs4470]

At that age, if it's coming right at them, a lot of them don't know how to react. If it's coming directly at them and it hits them, they get first base. My question was, did he catch it in front of him because it was going to hit him or out in front of him and he would not have been hit.

 

Even at that age, if the kid is skilled and brave enough to barehand a ball coming at him, I'd probably not award him the base, especially since the OP mentioned the pitch wasnt' traveling very fast. Now if the ball is traveling fast and right at his head and he catches the ball to protect himself, I'd be more inclined to award the base.

[nees1212]

We had the same thing happen in a fall softball game the other day. The ump awarded the girl first base. Other team went crazy. The pitch would've nailed her in the ribs had she not put her hand up. It was just a natural reaction for young kids when a ball is being thrown at them for the first time.

 

As for the chanting, I'll never allow my team to chant directly at the other team. That's just not my style. However, I have no issues with a team doing it. This does bring up a story from years ago. I was coaching a bunch of freshman playing in knothole. We were playing at Blue Ash on the Crosley replica. Halfway through our at bat during the 1st inning, the field ump told me my boys had to be quiet or I would be ejected from the game. The kids were only cheering for their teammates, there was absolutely nothing directed at the other team.