And I'm not saying better in every way. Quality coaching and tradition can make a significant impact on a football team's performance as well.

 

The green X on the side of the helmet is not scaring Desales anymore. Many many teams are beat when they step on the field because of the name on the jersey or the helmets the other team is wearing.

Well, first of all, there are always going to be anomalies in any statistical area. It may be a year where DeSales has an unusual number of talented sophomores or St. X has a down class. Injuries can factor in and at the JV level you may have one team playing a significant number of Juniors while the other plays only Sophs. Did DeSales have a +5 turnover ratio? There could be any number of reasons. How often do these two teams play each other and how often does DeSales win?

 

And I'm not saying better in every way. Quality coaching and tradition can make a significant impact on a football team's performance as well.

I don't see that as a valid answer. If the enrollment size of a school is such a big advantage for large schools and small school can't compete with them it should be impossible for a 2A school to beat one of the largest schools in the state, period. St. X has 100 JV players. That is huge. They could have a full first and second team of offense and a full first and second team of defense and never use the same player twice. If enrollment size is as important as people say, there is no way this should ever happen. Ever.

 

Face it, enrollment size does very little for the quality of football. It's ok to say it. No one is going to make fun of you.

I don't see that as a valid answer. If the enrollment size of a school is such a big advantage for large schools and small school can't compete with them it should be impossible for a 2A school to beat one of the largest schools in the state, period. St. X has 100 JV players. That is huge. They could have a full first and second team of offense and a full first and second team of defense and never use the same player twice. If enrollment size is as important as people say, there is no way this should ever happen. Ever.

 

Face it, enrollment size does very little for the quality of football. It's ok to say it. No one is going to make fun of you.

 

Enrollment by itself does not make a program. But there isn't any coach out there who would tell you they would prefer pulling a team from 200 boys over 800 boys. A good coach and program at the 1A school can beat a below average coach and program at a 6A school. The more competent the 6A coach, the less the chances for the 1A school.

Thank you. And, I'm sure you, and the other Highlands fans, would agree that larger linemen are not always better linemen. Likewise, I'm sure you would agree that Highlands has 80 players and many of the 6A schools do not.

 

Enrollment numbers of a school do not correlate to the quality of the football program, for the life of me I don't understand why people don't get that.

 

There is also an implication that the program with the best conditioning program produces the most on the field. I have always wondered what it was about HHS conditioning program that makes it special. Or , is it the availability of private conditioning?

Enrollment by itself does not make a program. But there isn't any coach out there who would tell you they would prefer pulling a team from 200 boys over 800 boys. A good coach and program at the 1A school can beat a below average coach and program at a 6A school. The more competent the 6A coach, the less the chances for the 1A school.

So, are you saying St. X is "below average", or are you saying their coach is "incompetent"?

So, are you saying St. X is "below average", or are you saying their coach is "incompetent"?

 

If you are talking about the JV game, there are so many factors at that level I pay no attention to JV scores.

 

But I will say, it is possible for a 1A or 2A team to compete on any level if everything works out exactly right and you get the talent. There are exceptions to everything.

If you are talking about the JV game, there are so many factors at that level I pay no attention to JV scores.

 

But I will say, it is possible for a 1A or 2A team to compete on any level if everything works out exactly right and you get the talent. There are exceptions to everything.

How many 1A or 2A teams have beaten St. X in a JV game in the last 20 years?

How many 1A or 2A teams have beaten St. X in a JV game in the last 20 years?

 

That question pretty well proves my point. There are exceptions.

That question pretty well proves my point. There are exceptions.

The reason St. X doesn't lose much is not because of their numbers, their numbers are because they don't lose much.

 

The make up of the program and the amount of importance placed on the program that dictates the quality of the program, not the number of students in the school. Just like Beechwood beating large schools for all those years. Numbers had nothing to do with it, the quality of the program did.

The reason St. X doesn't lose much is not because of their numbers, their numbers are because they don't lose much.

 

The make up of the program and the amount of importance placed on the program that dictates the quality of the program, not the number of students in the school. Just like Beechwood beating large schools for all those years. Numbers had nothing to do with it, the quality of the program did.

 

We are saying the same thing. The difference is you aren't admitting that it is better to have more numbers. Yes, the quality of the coaching and the program are critical. But those factors being equal, larger enrollment is better than smaller. There is more margin for error in the higher enrollment program.

 

If coaching and program are equal, larger enrollment wins. There generally has to be a very, very good coach and/or program in place at the smaller school to beat just an above average or better coach and/or program at a large school.

I agree with VOR on this topic. Ram, you seem determined to convince everyone that the size of the school or roster makes no difference, or very little difference in the quality of the team. I completely disagree.

 

Let's try this ....take your roster of 90 players arranged by jersey number. Now draw a line through all the odd numbered players removing them from your roster. Now go make your team. How many positions become instantly weaker? That is a random reduction in numbers based solely on population. Did that make a difference in the quality of your team?

Exactly. It is always good to have numbers and it is a lot easier to get numbers at a school that has a large number of students. Do exceptions exist? Sure as evidenced by Highlands, Beechwood and NCC in NKY and other programs throughout the state. All things being equal 6A schools should dominate 1A, 2A and 3A schools and they generally do.

I agree with VOR on this topic. Ram, you seem determined to convince everyone that the size of the school or roster makes no difference, or very little difference in the quality of the team. I completely disagree.

 

Let's try this ....take your roster of 90 players arranged by jersey number. Now draw a line through all the odd numbered players removing them from your roster. Now go make your team. How many positions become instantly weaker? That is a random reduction in numbers based solely on population. Did that make a difference in the quality of your team?

But, my point is not about roster size, it is about enrollment size. A larger enrollment size does not necessarily correlate to a larger roster. For example: In my area the 1A schools have just as many players at all the 3A, 4A and 5A schools. Where is the advantage? There isn't one, the 1A schools play, compete and even beat the 4A and 5A schools. Why? Because the larger schools do not get an advantage by having a larger roster just because they have a larger enrollment.

 

That is why the St. X/DeSales score surprises me, St. Xavier does have a much larger roster. Totally different story from what most schools have.

But, my point is not about roster size, it is about enrollment size. A larger enrollment size does not necessarily correlate to a larger roster. For example: In my area the 1A schools have just as many players at all the 3A, 4A and 5A schools. Where is the advantage? There isn't one, the 1A schools play, compete and even beat the 4A and 5A schools. Why? Because the larger schools do not get an advantage by having a larger roster just because they have a larger enrollment.

 

That is why the St. X/DeSales score surprises me, St. Xavier does have a much larger roster. Totally different story from what most schools have.

 

JV games mean absolutely nothing. Let's just take one position for example. A small school may have their Varsity starting kicker who is a Soph. playing safety in a JV game because he is also a 3rd string backup safety for Varsity and their #2 kicker doing the JV kicking. A large school may have their #4 kicker doing the kicking in the JV game because the other 3 ahead of him are JRs or SRs and the 6th string safety playing in the JV game.

 

Heck the now NCC starting Varsity QB was the #3 QB who moved up to #2 when the starter broke his leg in a scrimmage and then started NCC's first JV game. Then was moved to the starting Varsity QB. So I'm guessing their JV team was a little different with him at QB than now with at best the #4 QB who probably was not even a QB 4 weeks ago.

JV games mean absolutely nothing. Let's just take one position for example. A small school may have their Varsity starting kicker who is a Soph. playing safety in a JV game because he is also a 3rd string backup safety for Varsity and their #2 kicker doing the JV kicking. A large school may have their #4 kicker doing the kicking in the JV game because the other 3 ahead of him are JRs or SRs and the 6th string safety playing in the JV game.

 

Heck the now NCC starting Varsity QB was the #3 QB who moved up to #2 when the starter broke his leg in a scrimmage and then started NCC's first JV game. Then was moved to the starting Varsity QB. So I'm guessing their JV team was a little different with him at QB than now with at best the #4 QB who probably was not even a QB 4 weeks ago.

You're missing the point. We are not talking about how good the players are, we are talking about roster size. It has been said more times then I can count that a large school has more players to choose from, I contend that most times that is not the case. Many schools with 400 boys have a roster of 60 players and a school with 200 boys has a roster of 60 players. Where is the advantage for the larger school? There isn't one, they are getting the same number of players from their 400 boys that other schools are getting with 200 boys.