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Mike Brown on Dalton Contract

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Let the record show that I did not hang that sign lol

 

I'm still analyzing the people hanging it up on the bridge for any BGP faces.

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Everyone complains about what Reds players make in this city, yet they wanna hand Dalton 15 mill a year.

I'm still analyzing the people hanging it up on the bridge for any BGP faces.

 

What does the sign on the right say?

I would agree 110% if it was t followed by that many INTs.

 

As I said in my post, when you look at his increased yards and TDs it looks good, but the fact he throws more int's also is why I say he's really closer to the same as he was rookie year instead of "improving" every year as some claim.

 

If he had say even only 13 Ints last year that would mark a big improvement but the fact he basically added another 7 isn't an improvement.

 

You continue to look at one aspect and ignore several areas of improvement. What about QBR increase from 80 to 88 which involves several categories and takes into account the increased ints?

Lets ask this, if AD becomes a Free Agent, where does he go?

 

Houston.

Everyone complains about what Reds players make in this city, yet they wanna hand Dalton 15 mill a year.

 

He is the QB of an NFL team that has been to three straight playoffs...how is that in any way analogous to a Reds' player?

And will prob get cut a few years after. Ala Ryan Fitzpatrick. Dalton is not elite we can't keep pretending he is.

 

John, I feel like you (and several others) are judging Dalton as if he is a 10 year veteran. The guy has three years in the league, heck some QB's haven't even taken a snap at that point. Obviously he has to be better, in general, in big games, in the playoffs, in a myriad of ways, but there is no reason to believe he isn't still on an upward trajectory. Does anyone look at Cam as a finished product? Jake Locker? Christian Ponder (that lasted a long time, huh?)?

 

The desire to cut bait and start over, with a roster chock-full of guys either in or entering their prime, is just amazing to me.

You continue to look at one aspect and ignore several areas of improvement. What about QBR increase from 80 to 88 which involves several categories and takes into account the increased ints?

 

The same could be said about those who claim he has improved every year too by ignoring the turnovers etc as well as ignoring how he performs in big games and the post season.

 

I don't see improvement when he continues to throw more INTs in every post season game than TD's.

 

You may not think INTs are that big of a deal but to me they are huge.

 

I've always been a QB guy. If you ask me what the most telling stat for any QB is and I will always start off by saying completion %. Next will always be TD to INT ratio. And I just have not seen a continued improvement from year to year in those areas. His complete % actually went down last year from the previous year and his int's went up.

 

As I said earlier I look at him as staying about the same from year 1 if anything and no way has he clearly improved like some say.

He is the QB of an NFL team that has been to three straight playoffs...how is that in any way analogous to a Reds' player?

 

That if you are making big money in this small market you have to back it up. Look at Reds threads and you will realize it in a hurry. The only way Dalton could be criticized more, is a dalton who is making a ton of money.

John' date=' I feel like you (and several others) are judging Dalton as if he is a 10 year veteran. The guy has three years in the league, heck some QB's haven't even taken a snap at that point. Obviously he has to be better, in general, in big games, in the playoffs, in a myriad of ways, but there is no reason to believe he isn't still on an upward trajectory. Does anyone look at Cam as a finished product? Jake Locker? Christian Ponder (that lasted a long time, huh?)? The desire to cut bait and start over, with a roster chock-full of guys either in or entering their prime, is just amazing to me.[/quote']

 

I understand your point, you always have solid points but my argument would be that..

 

All of the "football guys" out there, basically, people who get paid to study or watch football do not believe in him. The Bengals themselves drafted a QB who can win big games, at least in college.

 

He walked into a potent offense with a OC who is now a HC. He also has one of the best receivers in the game making big catches. Still 3 years later he's like a pitcher who gets lit up in the 2nd half of the season. Most recently lost to a warm weather team, who came to Cincy in the winter with a QB who everyone thought was done.

John, I feel like you (and several others) are judging Dalton as if he is a 10 year veteran. The guy has three years in the league, heck some QB's haven't even taken a snap at that point. Obviously he has to be better, in general, in big games, in the playoffs, in a myriad of ways, but there is no reason to believe he isn't still on an upward trajectory. Does anyone look at Cam as a finished product? Jake Locker? Christian Ponder (that lasted a long time, huh?)?

 

The desire to cut bait and start over, with a roster chock-full of guys either in or entering their prime, is just amazing to me.

 

This. Three years in the league with solid growth each year. He's not and never will be a star but he's a solid performer who still has an upwards trajectory. At 26 I'm fine with giving him another year to see if he continues improvement. I would roll the dice and see if he can get over the big game hurdle before I put a big contract out there. The immediate problem is what better option do we have.

I think he'd be one of the best backups somewhere. When I look at Dalton the one QB he reminds me most of is Jon Kitna. He's a QB you'd love to have if your starter goes down, but he isn't one that can lead a team from week 1 and go deep In the playoffs with.

 

He can get you a win here and there and he can beat teams he's supposed to beat, it's just those teams that are among the best that season are the ones that give the most trouble and keep them from getting over that hump.

 

I am in agreement with a lot of things you have said about Dalton, however he is better than just a backup. Your last paragraph even backs that up. Backup QB's do go out and usually always beat the teams they are suppose to beat. As you even said he actually does well against bad and average teams. Backup QB's wouldn't be able to do that consistently. He is a NFL starter but definitely not an top one yet and may never be.

Edited by futurecoach

The same could be said about those who claim he has improved every year too by ignoring the turnovers etc as well as ignoring how he performs in big games and the post season.

 

I don't see improvement when he continues to throw more INTs in every post season game than TD's.

 

You may not think INTs are that big of a deal but to me they are huge.

 

I've always been a QB guy. If you ask me what the most telling stat for any QB is and I will always start off by saying completion %. Next will always be TD to INT ratio. And I just have not seen a continued improvement from year to year in those areas. His complete % actually went down last year from the previous year and his int's went up.

 

As I said earlier I look at him as staying about the same from year 1 if anything and no way has he clearly improved like some say.

 

If you mean he hasnt gotten better where it matters most and that is in big games, then I agree with you. If you meant in general he just hasn't gotten better than I disagree and the numbers support that. QB rating, QBR both take interceptions into account and they still had him getting better. Not to mention the Bengals were a top 10 offense without much of a running game, and 6th in points scored. So without much of a running game, the offense doesn't keep getting better if he didn't.

 

However what we need him to do and the most important thing for him to do is to get better in the big games or else nothing else matters. Which I agree on. :D

Edited by futurecoach

You continue to look at one aspect and ignore several areas of improvement. What about QBR increase from 80 to 88 which involves several categories and takes into account the increased ints?

 

I am assuming you meant just the old QB rating and not QBR. His QBR went up 7 points last year but it definitely was not in the 80's it was 56. Now his QB rating was 88 though.

His completion % went down by .04%. That's 2 lousy completions.

 

His TD% went up by .57%. His INT% went up by .38%. That means he actually threw 1.5 more TDs per additional INT he throw last year.

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