June 10, 201412 yr In 2004 the Red Sox traded Nomar Garciaparra in the middle of a pennant race--they won the World Series. In 2008 the Red Sox traded Manny Ramirez in the middle of a pennant race--the won the Wild Card and made it to Game 7 of the ALCS. Sometimes you add by subtracting... In both cases, the player and the club had serious issues with each other that were about to boil over. That isn't the case here. And, they got a starting SS and valuable LH PH for Nomar. They got a 2 time all star and former ROY at age 28, Jason Bay, for Manny. Think the Reds would land anything along those lines for BP?
June 10, 201412 yr So you're going to give away the Reds best offensive player for nothing? Are you trying to say BP is the Reds best offensive player? In what world?
June 10, 201412 yr In both cases, the player and the club had serious issues with each other that were about to boil over. That isn't the case here. Yes it is. The front office hates BP. Can't stand him. He can't stand them. Would trade him for a couple guys that will never make it past AA if they could.
June 10, 201412 yr Are you trying to say BP is the Reds best offensive player? In what world? He sure is right now, sadly.
June 10, 201412 yr He sure is right now, sadly. Nope. Frazier and Meso both have been better. Not sure how one can argue otherwise.
June 10, 201412 yr Nope. Frazier and Meso both have been better. Not sure how one can argue otherwise. Disagree. Meso cooled off tremendously and missed a ton of time. BP has been consistent if nothing else. Frazier down to earth as well. Look, I'm not saying he's the best offensive player on this team when everyone is in the fold and things are "normal". Which also lends to the argument that he needs to hit the road.
June 10, 201412 yr In both cases, the player and the club had serious issues with each other that were about to boil over. That isn't the case here. And, they got a starting SS and valuable LH PH for Nomar. They got a 2 time all star and former ROY at age 28, Jason Bay, for Manny. Think the Reds would land anything along those lines for BP? Mientkiewicz hit .215 with 1 homer and 10 RBIs for the Red Sox. He was a non-factor. Cabrera played well for the Red Sox but his contract was up at the end of the season so he was a rental. The deal was done to work out a clubhouse issue and improve the defense. Remember Garciaparra was coming off a .300 28 HR season. He was still an excellent player--they did not get equal value by any means. Manny's situation was almost identical to Phillips. He had hit .299 with 20 homers and 68 RBIs in 100 games for the Red Sox. Although unhappy he was still producing at an elite level. With his big contract they also had to give up Craig Hansen and Brandon Moss but they were able to get back a good hitter in Bay. He wasn't as good as Manny but good nonetheless. The Reds might have to include a prospect if they want to get back someone that can help out immediately but it can be done. Phillips is still a good enough player that someone that is going all in to win this season will want him. If you include multiple teams in the deal it is very likely that you could get back a productive player for him. Especially if you are willing to give up someone like Cingrani or the AAA pitcher that is fairly highly regarded (I'm not a Reds fan so I can't remember the name) or someone like Lutz. I wouldn't say that Phillips doesn't have issues with the club. Just because he is playing well doesn't mean he's a model citizen. Look at Nomar and Manny's numbers the years that they were traded.
June 10, 201412 yr Disagree. Meso cooled off tremendously and missed a ton of time. BP has been consistent if nothing else. Frazier down to earth as well. Look, I'm not saying he's the best offensive player on this team when everyone is in the fold and things are "normal". Which also lends to the argument that he needs to hit the road. How is Frazier "down to Earth"? Better average, more HR, more RBI, better OBP, better SLG, better OPS...He had a poor first month of the season. Since the end of April Jersey is hitting .295 with 9 HR & 20 RBI with an OBP of .350. He's been very consistent this year.
June 10, 201412 yr I disagree.... Why must BP go one way or the other? It's like conceding contention? (Assuming they are in contention... If they decide they are sellers, trading BP is probably a good option). It is all about the 10/5 rights you referenced already. Their is deep-seeded dislike between some key members of the front office and Brandon and they aren't going to let him have control of the situation...period. They'll spin it and talk about "chemistry" and "payroll-flexibility", but in essence, it is jettison a jerk and hope for a minimal drop-off with Skip or another second-baseman.
June 10, 201412 yr Yes it is. The front office hates BP. Can't stand him. He can't stand them. Would trade him for a couple guys that will never make it past AA if they could. That's your opinion but certainly not factual... With Manny and Nomar, there was beef in the newspapers at the time. Was there that issue with BP? Sure. But that was 6/7 months ago. There has been a decent cooling off period and quite frankly, from the outside looking in, there appears to be no lingering issues.
June 10, 201412 yr So you're going to give away the Reds best offensive player for nothing? If you're referring to BP, then the answer is yes, THEY are going to do exactly that. They'll end up having to eat a ton of that contract too, to boot. The sad part is, by not doing it over the winter (although not for a lack of trying), they now are completely de-leveraged unless multiple teams are competing to land him. If it is a one-team conversation, it'll be the most lopsided "negotiation" in baseball history.
June 10, 201412 yr It is all about the 10/5 rights you referenced already. Their is deep-seeded dislike between some key members of the front office and Brandon and they aren't going to let him have control of the situation...period. They'll spin it and talk about "chemistry" and "payroll-flexibility", but in essence, it is jettison a jerk and hope for a minimal drop-off with Skip or another second-baseman. If that is the case, they are more concerned about personal issues than winning ballgames. I'm not saying that's good or bad or whatever. At the end of the day, it's their 72.5million bucks. But if they jettison him while he is producing and they are in the race, it will be obvious it is for personal issues rather than baseball issues.
June 10, 201412 yr If you're referring to BP, then the answer is yes, THEY are going to do exactly that. They'll end up having to eat a ton of that contract too, to boot. The sad part is, by not doing it over the winter (although not for a lack of trying), they now are completely de-leveraged unless multiple teams are competing to land him. If it is a one-team conversation, it'll be the most lopsided "negotiation" in baseball history. Another reason to not trade him. The return won't match what they are giving up.
June 10, 201412 yr If that is the case, they are more concerned about personal issues than winning ballgames. I'm not saying that's good or bad or whatever. At the end of the day, it's their 72.5million bucks. But if they jettison him while he is producing and they are in the race, it will be obvious it is for personal issues rather than baseball issues. 100% correct on every front. However, it is their sandbox, so they are allowed to make decisions for any reason they want. It was NEVER about baseball issues. Ever. From day one. Always personal.
June 10, 201412 yr 100% correct on every front. However, it is their sandbox, so they are allowed to make decisions for any reason they want. It was NEVER about baseball issues. Ever. From day one. Always personal. If true, then, quite frankly, we don't belong in the discussion with elite teams in baseball. If it's about personal beefs more than winning games, then we won't able to consistently compete.
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