Mitch Rapp posted this in another thread and I thought we could discuss it separately:

 

There is no magic bullet and the topic of what is wrong with our country's education system should probably be left for a thread of its own. Just a couple of my suggestions would be to boot the federal government and the NEA out of local school systems. They push things into curricula that do not belong there and reduce the time spent on teaching students basic skills that equip them to solve problems.

 

Our culture is probably an even bigger handicap than the federal government and NEA efforts to gut our education system in pursuit of higher teacher salaries and better benefits. Students hear from parents, the media, and unfortunately even from many teachers that math and science are difficult subjects. Consequently, too many kids end up pursuing nearly worthless college degrees that they believe will require less effort.

 

I base my opinion that American culture is mostly to blame for our very weak public education system on the fact that recent immigrants to this country dominate academic competition - particularly in math and science, despite their relatively small share of the population.

 

The less value that a culture places on education, the worse qualified high school and college graduates are for prepared to succeed. That is why Washington, DC can spend $29,349 per student and still find that 83% of 8th graders are not proficient in reading and 81% are not proficient in math.

 

 

I agree with Mitch that many, including many educators, tell students intentionally or unintentionally that math and science are hard and put less emphasis on them. How can we fix this?

His 3rd paragraph says it all. Our Culture is the demise.

 

It's amazing the vast difference in kids now compared to just to 5-6 years ago. It's sickening really. Thing is, they are a product of us.

 

Something that eats me up more than anything, and this might seem random, but to me, it shows the lack of respect this generation has for just about any and everything, but I'm relatively close to teachers/coaches at several school districts and you hear these kids call their teachers, even coaches by their last name only. Not Mr. or Mrs. So and So, but "Johnson" "Jones". No Mr., Mrs., Coach, etc. in front of it...but, just by their last name. I hear them do it at the MS and the HS level.

 

The overall sense of entitlement and just flat out (sissyfication, for the lack of a better word...so, I made up this one) is sickening.

I agree with Mitch that many, including many educators, tell students intentionally or unintentionally that math and science are hard and put less emphasis on them. How can we fix this?

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with telling them it's hard/challenging, but maybe also following it up with; "...think this is hard? So is digging ditches, throwing hay and weed whacking all summer long." (if you enjoy those sorts of things, so be it..I actually enjoy yard work. lol But, my last two years of college, a bunch of us worked at Amazon the last couple weeks leading up to Christmas; and, often times during finals week. I hated studying, and do still to this day (an undergrad and two graduate degrees later)...but, guess what I hated even more? Walking up and down those isles scanning goods for 12 hrs, and imagining doing that for the next 40 years of my life. I call that motivation. Get it wherever you can find it.)

 

That's why I think moreso than ever that SPORTS/being part of a team are such an integral part of our education system today (IMO, they are just as important. They are truly another classroom whether people want to admit it to themselves or not). When things are going bad, you have to keep pushing...when you get knocked on your tail (literally) in front of hundreds/thousands of people....you have to get up and keep going. I could go on and, on..but, you get my point.

 

My two best teachers to this day were my Junior Math teacher and AP Biology teacher in HS (like all great teachers/coaches, they had this uncanny way of CONNECTING to people..either have it or you don't), and what I learned from them I still carry with me today. But, had I bombed their classes...just quit and gave up when times got tough, none of my classmates would have cared; I wasn't effecting them. However, had I quit or given up when times got tough on the fields/courts...I was effecting my buddies. I didn't want to let them down.

 

Sara Jane sitting in the front of my Math class didn't care whether or not I passed a test or even showed up to class. I wasn't effecting her. But, not showing up to practice or quitting the football team would have effected our QB and the 10 other guys on the field I played with.

Edited June 8, 201412 yr by Harry Doyle

If American culture is to blame, it's only because it's widely accepted to have the Federal Government play a huge role in determining standards.

 

Not because we tell them it's hard. That's anecdotal. It's not based on numbers or facts -- the things science and math depend on.

If American culture is to blame, it's only because it's widely accepted to have the Federal Government play a huge role in determining standards.

 

Not because we tell them it's hard. That's anecdotal. It's not based on numbers or facts -- the things science and math depend on.

Can you explain why immigrants, mostly from Asia dominate academic competitions in math and science in this country, despite the fact that they attend the same schools as native-born Americans in far smaller numbers? You are correct that my statement was anecdotal but that does not make the theory wrong.

 

Federal standards are not the problem. If children were learning math and science in our schools, they would not perform poorly when compared to their foreign counterpart. The attempts by the federal government to control the subject matter being taught in local schools is a problem. The Federal bureaucrats should not be allowed near our schools.

Can you explain why immigrants, mostly from Asian dominate academic competitions in math and science in this country, despite the fact that they attend the same schools as native-born Americans? You are correct that my statement was anecdotal but that does not make the theory wrong.

Stopped by my favorite Chinese take-out restaurant a couple days ago. An 8th grader from a local public middle school was helping out with the cash register, taking orders and translating, too. Between customers he would sit down at a table and read from a high school history book. He had a whole stack of AP history books and the like.

He said he was studying for the National History Bee! :thumb:

Federal standards are not the problem.... The attempts by the federal government to control the subject matter being taught in local schools is a problem. The Federal bureaucrats should not be allowed near our schools.

 

Can you explain this a little more? The first sentence seems to contradict the rest of your statement.

Anybody ever met a dumb asian? I haven't. I'm sure there are some, but I haven't met one. (By 'dumb' I would hope that everyone knows what I mean, and not those with obvious disabilities).

 

Which begs my next question, is there such thing as FAPE in Asia (Free And Appropriate Education Act).

 

Something else that goes along with the first statement. I know a school where an Asian - American girl was it's valedictorian. She was adopted at the age of 3 and came over then. The family she was adopted in also had two other kids, both of whom are pretty good students in their own right, but nowhere near her.

 

On my phone and out for a while. I'll check this out later tonight or tomorrow.

Edited June 8, 201412 yr by Harry Doyle

Can you explain why immigrants, mostly from Asia dominate academic competitions in math and science in this country, despite the fact that they attend the same schools as native-born Americans in far smaller numbers?

 

 

I can tell you one thing why. Their parents expect more out of them.

Can you explain why immigrants, mostly from Asia dominate academic competitions in math and science in this country, despite the fact that they attend the same schools as native-born Americans in far smaller numbers? You are correct that my statement was anecdotal but that does not make the theory wrong.

 

Federal standards are not the problem. If children were learning math and science in our schools, they would not perform poorly when compared to their foreign counterpart. The attempts by the federal government to control the subject matter being taught in local schools is a problem. The Federal bureaucrats should not be allowed near our schools.

 

I have zero clue.

 

But I don't believe you put an emphasis on science and math by post hoc thinking.

 

And when I said Federal Standards, I was thinking the Federal Government controlling the subject matter being taught. Sorry for the confusion.

Can you explain why immigrants, mostly from Asia dominate academic competitions in math and science in this country, despite the fact that they attend the same schools as native-born Americans in far smaller numbers?

 

 

I can tell you one thing why. Their parents expect more out of them.

I will also add that it seems like it is a tight knit family culture where they all support each other.

America's education system is only as good as American parents. Many are failing.

I will also add that it seems like it is a tight knit family culture where they all support each other.

It also is worth pointing out that some cultures emphasize sports, while others emphasize success in the classroom.

Can you explain why immigrants, mostly from Asia dominate academic competitions in math and science in this country, despite the fact that they attend the same schools as native-born Americans in far smaller numbers?

 

 

I can tell you one thing why. Their parents expect more out of them.

 

My knee-jerk reaction - there's a lot of truth in that simple statement.