We do not disagree that much, but the basics have changed. Math was rarely taught conceptually and reading had little technical basis. We are actually teaching much better than we were 20 years ago.

We will have to disagree on math teaching being better today than it was 20 years ago, although I have not been in school myself in the past 20 years.

 

My background is engineering and I have a pretty good understanding of what math skills are necessary to pursue technical careers. Schools did a better job teaching math 50 years ago than they do today and students had a better appreciation of the importance of math. There are some great math teachers working in schools across the country but there are also thousands of people teaching math who dislike the subject themselves.

 

When I was in high school, I worked hard to make sure that my time was not wasted by bad math teachers. I changed my schedule in high school to get into the classes that I wanted but most students just went to where they were told and never considered the possibility of changing teachers. Kids can get a good education in most schools, but either they or their parents have to want a good education. Good math and science teachers are much more rare in our high schools than good English, history, or geography teachers.

 

Please do not take my comments personally. I had some outstanding math and science teachers and so did my children, but my wife and I had to intervene to ensure that they avoided most teachers who would have wasted their time.

We will have to disagree on math teaching being better today than it was 20 years ago, although I have not been in school myself in the past 20 years.

 

My background is engineering and I have a pretty good understanding of what math skills are necessary to pursue technical careers. Schools did a better job teaching math 50 years ago than they do today and students had a better appreciation of the importance of math. There are some great math teachers working in schools across the country but there are also thousands of people teaching math who dislike the subject themselves.

 

When I was in high school, I worked hard to make sure that my time was not wasted by bad math teachers. I changed my schedule in high school to get into the classes that I wanted but most students just went to where they were told and never considered the possibility of changing teachers. Kids can get a good education in most schools, but either they or their parents have to want a good education. Good math and science teachers are much more rare in our high schools than good English, history, or geography teachers.

 

Please do not take my comments personally. I had some outstanding math and science teachers and so did my children, but my wife and I had to intervene to ensure that they avoided most teachers who would have wasted their time.

 

I really did not take anything personally, but I have been in schools in some capacities nationwide for 40 years. I have heard it all. Like most things, lots of misinformation. I am glad you were able to assist your kids.

I really did not take anything personally, but I have been in schools in some capacities nationwide for 40 years. I have heard it all. Like most things, lots of misinformation. I am glad you were able to assist your kids.

You have made some very good points and I have enjoyed the discussion. I think that I have given the impression that I oppose standardized tests. All of my children took their first ACT in either 7th or 8th grade and they never minded being tested. My objection is to standardized tests written by professors and bureaucrats who too often have very little experience in either the private sector or a in front of a class of young students.

I fully agree with you about setting minimum standards - I just believe that states are the appropriate level to set those standards. The federal government should have no power to reward and punish schools for meeting or failing to meet standards set in Washington, DC.

 

I am not sure where the setting of standards (and assurance of meeting them) should be. I am not happy with Kentucky's version at the moment. Take, for instance "College and Career Readiness" standards. ACT has set benchmark scores that, based on research, show that by attainment of that minimum score, the students stands a certain percentage of earning at least a "B" in college freshmen level courses (English, math, biology).

 

Kentucky took those numbers and reduced them (except for English) and threw out science all together. The result is that we are pumping kids up for being "college ready" in math and those same students are going to Kentucky colleges and have to take remedial level courses because their ACT scores aren't high enough or they can't pass the entrance test into college algebra.

 

Likewise, I am not satisfied with my local board of education. Some members are fine with there being no requirement for any physics curriculum at the high school level.

 

Perhaps I shouldn't put more faith in the federal government. Like I said, I just don't know. It's frustrating and in the end, I only feel like I can truly affect what is going on in my classroom and, in some instances, my school.

I am also opposed to efforts to keep students in high school who have absolutely no interest in getting an education and are disruptive to classes of students who want an education. Graduating illiterate students from high schools who have only remained in school to avoid losing a driver's license serves no purpose, IMO. Graduation rates are not good measures of the quality of a school. They are a reflection of the community.

 

You are preaching to the choir here. I find it disgusting to "graduate" students who lack the skills necessary to be a productive member of society...and that includes attendance. A student that has missed more school than they have attended has not demonstrated that they will be a contributing member of society as I can't imagine a job in which you'd be allowed to be absent more than you are there.

 

I think that a diploma SHOULD have meaning, not be something that is manipulated so that numbers on paper look good.

I am not sure where the setting of standards (and assurance of meeting them) should be. I am not happy with Kentucky's version at the moment. Take, for instance "College and Career Readiness" standards. ACT has set benchmark scores that, based on research, show that by attainment of that minimum score, the students stands a certain percentage of earning at least a "B" in college freshmen level courses (English, math, biology).

 

Kentucky took those numbers and reduced them (except for English) and threw out science all together. The result is that we are pumping kids up for being "college ready" in math and those same students are going to Kentucky colleges and have to take remedial level courses because their ACT scores aren't high enough or they can't pass the entrance test into college algebra.

 

Likewise, I am not satisfied with my local board of education. Some members are fine with there being no requirement for any physics curriculum at the high school level.

 

Perhaps I shouldn't put more faith in the federal government. Like I said, I just don't know. It's frustrating and in the end, I only feel like I can truly affect what is going on in my classroom and, in some instances, my school.

My high school did not even offer a physics class. I was the only student in my freshman physics class at Georgetown College who had not taken a high school physics class. I spent every Friday afternoon in my professor's class asking questions. I ended up with an "A" in the class but on that first day, I was really wondering if I would even pass the class.

 

The professor started very quickly reviewing high school physics on the first day of class and that was the first time I had ever heard of vectors. To make matters even worse, I was the only kid in class who did not bring a calculator on the first day of class, but I had one by the second day of class. That may have been the first semester where pocket calculators replaced slide rules. It is terrifying to realize that you are the worst prepared student in class. :lol2:

 

The classes that I took later at UK in Statics, Dynamics, Fluid Mechanics, etc. were among my favorites but I got off to a rocky start in physics.

 

My opposition to federal involvement in education is that people writing regulations in Washington are not accountable to parents for results. State officials are a little more accountable but if a parent cares deeply about education, then they can often be elected to a local school board.

 

I believe that people usually get the government that they deserve, and public schools are part of that government. If a community wants to have great schools and is given the autonomy to make it happen, then it will. The same goes for an apathetic community. No amount of federal standards, money, and red tape will transform a bad school system into a good one.

Deterioration of families through divorce, or, just choosing not to marry, takes the focus off children. I believe healthy family structures , and educational values, to be highly correlated.

I'll add to this the importance of one parent, either mom or dad, or even grandma or a close relative tending to the children when they are very young. Not possible for all, but possible for many, if you are willing to give up the material stuff and status to be available for your kids.

My high school did not even offer a physics class. I was the only student in my freshman physics class at Georgetown College who had not taken a high school physics class. I spent every Friday afternoon in my professor's class asking questions. I ended up with an "A" in the class but on that first day, I was really wondering if I would even pass the class.

 

The professor started very quickly reviewing high school physics on the first day of class and that was the first time I had ever heard of vectors. To make matters even worse, I was the only kid in class who did not bring a calculator on the first day of class, but I had one by the second day of class. That may have been the first semester where pocket calculators replaced slide rules. It is terrifying to realize that you are the worst prepared student in class. :lol2:

 

The classes that I took later at UK in Statics, Dynamics, Fluid Mechanics, etc. were among my favorites but I got off to a rocky start in physics.

 

My opposition to federal involvement in education is that people writing regulations in Washington are not accountable to parents for results. State officials are a little more accountable but if a parent cares deeply about education, then they can often be elected to a local school board.

 

I believe that people usually get the government that they deserve, and public schools are part of that government. If a community wants to have great schools and is given the autonomy to make it happen, then it will. The same goes for an apathetic community. No amount of federal standards, money, and red tape will transform a bad school system into a good one.

 

You'll be happy to know that at our school level, we do have a requirement that all students receive physics curriculum. Some take a chem/phy combo (Physical Science) and others either take a full year of chemistry and a conceptual physics class or a full year of chemistry and a math based physics class. We just graduated 79 students this weekend. Of that group, 48 had taken (and passed) a rigorous physics course based on ACT quality core standards. I know...because I teach the class. The others all took (and passed) the one year pre-chem/pre-phy combo. Again, some on my board of education did not want there to be any required physics for students, but we can at least require on the school level that they take a class in it.

 

I had a similar experience in chemistry in college. As a chemistry major, we pretty much covered everything I had been taught in my first two weeks in my first chemistry class. I, too, remember feeling woefully unprepared. I vowed that my own students would never be in the same situation, unless it be of their own choosing.

 

The problem at the local level is that often the people that are in the position to make the decisions have personal agendas or do not have the background necessary to make an educated decision about curricular requirements.

I'll add to this the importance of one parent, either mom or dad, or even grandma or a close relative tending to the children when they are very young. Not possible for all, but possible for many, if you are willing to give up the material stuff and status to be available for your kids.

 

This is extremely important. If parents simply read to their children each night, future academic achievement would increase by leaps and bounds.

You are preaching to the choir here. I find it disgusting to "graduate" students who lack the skills necessary to be a productive member of society...and that includes attendance. A student that has missed more school than they have attended has not demonstrated that they will be a contributing member of society as I can't imagine a job in which you'd be allowed to be absent more than you are there.

 

I think that a diploma SHOULD have meaning, not be something that is manipulated so that numbers on paper look good.

 

According to another thread, that job is "teacher".

This is extremely important. If parents simply read to their children each night, future academic achievement would increase by leaps and bounds.

 

I used to have a bronze statue that served as my bedroom doorstop when I was growing up. Featured a bot sitting and reading, with the inscription, "The child who reads is the child who leads".