That's fine and dandy, but some wrongs are bigger than others. Many people seem to be equating the two as being equal, and that just ain't the case.

Does it concern you at all that Sterling was recorded in the privacy of his own home and without his knowledge and consent? Or that Toure's tweet was made consciously in a public forum? Does the fact that Sterling is a billionaire make it OK to air his private conversations?

 

I had never heard of Sterling until a few weeks ago and given MSNBC's dismal ratings, I am betting that not many people knew who Toure was either. IMO, Toure's tweet was worse because he voluntarily made it in a public forum - but what can one expect from a network that thinks that the semi-literate racist Al Sharpton is qualified to host a talk show? Sharpton's racist escapades top anything that we know about Toure or Sterling.

 

These are just more examples of people looking for reasons to be offended.

Does it concern you at all that Sterling was recorded in the privacy of his own home and without his knowledge and consent? Or that Toure's tweet was made consciously in a public forum? Does the fact that Sterling is a billionaire make it OK to air his private conversations?

 

I do have some concerns about it, yes. Privacy is a concern to me. The NBA messed up by not ousting the guy years earlier, when deeds much more dastardly than a stray n-word came to light in terms of his federal housing discrimination suit, among other lowlights.

 

But I'm not shedding a tear for the guy.

 

I had never heard of Sterling until a few weeks ago and given MSNBC's dismal ratings, I am betting that not many people knew who Toure was either. IMO, Toure's tweet was worse because he voluntarily made it in a public forum - but what can one expect from a network that thinks that the semi-literate racist Al Sharpton is qualified to host a talk show? Sharpton's racist escapades top anything that we know about Toure or Sterling.

 

These are just more examples of people looking for reasons to be offended.

 

I'm looking at the big picture in a decades-long history of deplorable behavior by Sterling. And I don't think anything Toure' said is anywhere near as nasty as the stuff Sterling said in these tapes, whether they were clandestinely recorded or with his permission. Does the fact that Sterling's racist words in this particular case may or may not have been obtained illegally somehow make this guy a sympathetic figure to you? Or that those comments don't matter somehow or didn't actually happen? Again, this guy not only says racist things but uses the power of his wealth and prestige to act upon his biases. Far more dangerous than a lowly Internet writer in terms of ability to negatively impact others.

I do have some concerns about it, yes. Privacy is a concern to me. The NBA messed up by not ousting the guy years earlier, when deeds much more dastardly than a stray n-word came to light in terms of his federal housing discrimination suit, among other lowlights.

 

But I'm not shedding a tear for the guy.

 

 

 

I'm looking at the big picture in a decades-long history of deplorable behavior by Sterling. And I don't think anything Toure' said is anywhere near as nasty as the stuff Sterling said in these tapes, whether they were clandestinely recorded or with his permission. Does the fact that Sterling's racist words in this particular case may or may not have been obtained illegally somehow make this guy a sympathetic figure to you? Or that those comments don't matter somehow or didn't actually happen? Again, this guy not only says racist things but uses the power of his wealth and prestige to act upon his biases. Far more dangerous than a lowly Internet writer in terms of ability to negatively impact others.

Sterling sounds like a despicable human being, so no he is personally not a sympathetic person to me. However, I take my constitutional rights seriously and the fact that a person can lose his business because of comments made in the privacy of his own home is a pretty scary thing, IMO - potentially much more dangerous than anything that anybody says or thinks.

 

I do not look at wealthy people as objects of scorn, deserving of whatever misfortune comes their way. The fact that Sterling's privacy was violated is no less of a concern to me than if your privacy or my privacy was violated because we could be next. People should be judged on their actions, not on their private speech and thoughts.

 

As for Toure, I will never demand that anybody be fired or punished for exposing themselves as racists. That is a business decision that their employer needs to make. How much more of its audience can MSNBC afford to lose? Besides, employing guys like Big Ed, Rachael Maddow, Toure, and Sharpton should remind everybody that the NBC News division cannot be trusted.

Sterling sounds like a despicable human being, so no he is personally not a sympathetic person to me. However, I take my constitutional rights seriously and the fact that a person can lose his business because of comments made in the privacy of his own home is a pretty scary thing, IMO - potentially much more dangerous than anything that anybody says or thinks.

 

I wouldn't call turning a $12 million investment into $2 billion "losing your business," but anyway. Especially since he owns most of Beverly Hills.

 

While I would normally agree with your sentiment on his team being stripped away because of his remarks, the fact is Sterling agreed to the NBA's rules, so he knew the consequences. He should consider himself lucky that the NBA didn't act on him years earlier, when his franchise wasn't worth much more than what he initially paid for it.

 

I do not look at wealthy people as objects of scorn, deserving of whatever misfortune comes their way. The fact that Sterling's privacy was violated is no less of a concern to me than if your privacy or my privacy was violated because we could be next. People should be judged on their actions, not on their private speech and thoughts.

 

Fair enough. But Sterling's actions and his remarks go hand-in-hand. There's mountains of evidence of decades of this behavior. The NBA just chose not to bother itself with it before, and the players (regrettably) also chose not to rock the boat on it until a few weeks ago. The only reason the NBA is acting upon this now is because of threats of boycotts by players. They can't go into next season with a Clippers team of all-white players.

 

To the bolded point, I don't either. I only have scorn for rich people who use their wealth to make others' lives miserable, like Sterling does.

 

As for Toure, I will never demand that anybody be fired or punished for exposing themselves as racists. That is a business decision that their employer needs to make. How much more of its audience can MSNBC afford to lose? Besides, employing guys like Big Ed, Rachael Maddow, Toure, and Sharpton should remind everybody that the NBC News division cannot be trusted.

 

I would suggest you don't watch NBC news, then. I know I don't.

I wouldn't call turning a $12 million investment into $2 billion "losing your business," but anyway. Especially since he owns most of Beverly Hills.

 

While I would normally agree with your sentiment on his team being stripped away because of his remarks, the fact is Sterling agreed to the NBA's rules, so he knew the consequences. He should consider himself lucky that the NBA didn't act on him years earlier, when his franchise wasn't worth much more than what he initially paid for it.

 

 

 

Fair enough. But Sterling's actions and his remarks go hand-in-hand. There's mountains of evidence of decades of this behavior. The NBA just chose not to bother itself with it before, and the players (regrettably) also chose not to rock the boat on it until a few weeks ago. The only reason the NBA is acting upon this now is because of threats of boycotts by players. They can't go into next season with a Clippers team of all-white players.

 

To the bolded point, I don't either. I only have scorn for rich people who use their wealth to make others' lives miserable, like Sterling does.

 

 

 

I would suggest you don't watch NBC news, then. I know I don't.

I think that I responded to most of the points that you made above in my previous post. But exactly how has Sterling used his wealth to make other people miserable? Are the players who pocketed millions in salaries worse off because Sterling is wealthy? I am interested in hearing how Sterling accumulating wealth robbed others of an opportunity to not be miserable.

I think that I responded to most of the points that you made above in my previous post. But exactly how has Sterling used his wealth to make other people miserable? Are the players who pocketed millions in salaries worse off because Sterling is wealthy? I am interested in hearing how Sterling accumulating wealth robbed others of an opportunity to not be miserable.

 

This is from 2006. It's just one of many. You need to do some reading to catch up on this issue.

 

This is a story from ESPN The Mag from 2009.

That's fine and dandy, but some wrongs are bigger than others. Many people seem to be equating the two as being equal, and that just ain't the case.

 

Before the law all stand in equal judgement.

This is from 2006. It's just one of many. You need to do some reading to catch up on this issue.

 

This is a story from ESPN The Mag from 2009.

Jim, the super wealthy always have people filing suit and claiming nasty things about them. The article that you linked, which I assume was written by a sportswriter basically contains quotes from the plaintiffs in several lawsuits. Those allegations might be totally true, partially true, or completely false but the article is written as if the allegations are facts.

 

Take for instance Elgin Baylor, who accepted Sterling's fat paychecks for 12 years before suing him for race and age discrimination. Do you not become just a little bit suspicious when a long time employee files such a suit after leaving a company?

 

I don't put much stock into what sportswriters have to say. I am convinced that Sterling holds some racist views but the attention that this story is getting far exceeds its importance.

 

I am also convinced that disgruntled employees don't often hang around for 12 years and former employees often become disgruntled when their paychecks stop coming.

 

Please forgive me for not being as quick as some to demonize this billionaire. I apologize if agreeing that he is a racist falls short of the outrage that I should be expressing.

Jim, the super wealthy always have people filing suit and claiming nasty things about them. The article that you linked, which I assume was written by a sportswriter basically contains quotes from the plaintiffs in several lawsuits. Those allegations might be totally true, partially true, or completely false but the article is written as if the allegations are facts.

 

Take for instance Elgin Baylor, who accepted Sterling's fat paychecks for 12 years before suing him for race and age discrimination. Do you not become just a little bit suspicious when a long time employee files such a suit after leaving a company?

 

I don't put much stock into what sportswriters have to say. I am convinced that Sterling holds some racist views but the attention that this story is getting far exceeds its importance.

 

I am also convinced that disgruntled employees don't often hang around for 12 years and former employees often become disgruntled when their paychecks stop coming.

 

Please forgive me for not being as quick as some to demonize this billionaire. I apologize if agreeing that he is a racist falls short of the outrage that I should be expressing.

 

Federal Housing Discrimination suit — millions paid out in settlement. Again, don't attack the media to defend this guy.

 

You act as though this guy is some benevolent philanthropist or something. Past history of the Clippers before Blake Griffin and Chris Paul landed there is that players looked for any excuse possible to get away from Sterling and the Clippers.

 

And don't act like he somehow was paying players out of the goodness of his heart or something, and nobody else wanted these players as though they'd be out on the street if it weren't for Sterling. We're talking about the best basketball players in the world. They just happened to get stuck working for a crummy boss.

Federal Housing Discrimination suit — millions paid out in settlement. Again, don't attack the media to defend this guy.

 

You act as though this guy is some benevolent philanthropist or something. Past history of the Clippers before Blake Griffin and Chris Paul landed there is that players looked for any excuse possible to get away from Sterling and the Clippers.

 

And don't act like he somehow was paying players out of the goodness of his heart or something, and nobody else wanted these players as though they'd be out on the street if it weren't for Sterling. We're talking about the best basketball players in the world. They just happened to get stuck working for a crummy boss.

Again, I have not defended what this guy said. I won't defend the settlement of a federal housing suit, provided that he admitted guilt as part of the settlement.

 

What I won't do is go off the deep end in condemning somebody for being a billionaire. It seems like the fact that Sterling is a racist to boot is just gravy to some people.

 

I am not into class warfare. The fact that Sterling is wealthy does not excuse his racism but it does not make it worse either. That is where we seem to disagree.

Again, I have not defended what this guy said. I won't defend the settlement of a federal housing suit, provided that he admitted guilt as part of the settlement.

 

That's the whole problem with the tens of millions of dollars he has paid out to settle suits and keep them from going to court. I see paying out that much money over the years, in multiple incidents, as a pretty big admission of guilt.

 

So you're not defending him. Fair enough. At best you're being an fervent apologist.

 

What I won't do is go off the deep end in condemning somebody for being a billionaire. It seems like the fact that Sterling is a racist to boot is just gravy to some people.

 

I don't condemn anyone for being rich. I'm happy to condemn them for the deplorable things they do to others, using their wealth and power as a blunt instrument. My scorn is pretty much isolated on people such as Sterling who do these things.

 

Plenty of rich people do wonderful things with their money that help others. Then there are people like Sterling, who use their money to make others' lives miserable.

 

I am not into class warfare. The fact that Sterling is wealthy does not excuse his racism but it does not make it worse either. That is where we seem to disagree.

 

You may not be into class warfare, but Sterling has made a long career and an exorbitant amount of money engaging in class warfare. It's what he's all about.

That's the whole problem with the tens of millions of dollars he has paid out to settle suits and keep them from going to court. I see paying out that much money over the years, in multiple incidents, as a pretty big admission of guilt.

 

So you're not defending him. Fair enough. At best you're being an fervent apologist.

 

 

 

I don't condemn anyone for being rich. I'm happy to condemn them for the deplorable things they do to others, using their wealth and power as a blunt instrument. My scorn is pretty much isolated on people such as Sterling who do these things.

 

Plenty of rich people do wonderful things with their money that help others. Then there are people like Sterling, who use their money to make others' lives miserable.

 

 

 

You may not be into class warfare, but Sterling has made a long career and an exorbitant amount of money engaging in class warfare. It's what he's all about.

No, I am not being a fervent apologist for this racist and I am growing a little tired of your insults, Jim. When it comes to wealthy people, you bash them in thread after thread. I don't know what events in your life forged your resentment of successful people and I don't really care.

 

Sterling is a racist but the fact that he is also a billionaire does not compound his sins. You disagree with that opinion and that's fine - just don't redirect your rage at rich white men toward me. I am white but I have never been and never expect to be wealthy.

No, I am not being a fervent apologist for this racist and I am growing a little tired of your insults, Jim. When it comes to wealthy people, you bash them in thread after thread. I don't know what events in your life forged your resentment of successful people and I don't really care.

 

Sterling is a racist but the fact that he is also a billionaire does not compound his sins. You disagree with that opinion and that's fine - just don't redirect your rage at rich white men toward me. I am white but I have never been and never expect to be wealthy.

 

Yes it does, because he uses his wealth to harm others, those who don't have the resources to defend themselves. I have no beef with rich people except for when they use their wealth to harm others.

That's fine and dandy, but some wrongs are bigger than others. Many people seem to be equating the two as being equal, and that just ain't the case.

 

So Antisemitism is lesser of an evil than racism?

Does it concern you at all that Sterling was recorded in the privacy of his own home and without his knowledge and consent? Or that Toure's tweet was made consciously in a public forum? Does the fact that Sterling is a billionaire make it OK to air his private conversations?

 

I had never heard of Sterling until a few weeks ago and given MSNBC's dismal ratings, I am betting that not many people knew who Toure was either. IMO, Toure's tweet was worse because he voluntarily made it in a public forum - but what can one expect from a network that thinks that the semi-literate racist Al Sharpton is qualified to host a talk show? Sharpton's racist escapades top anything that we know about Toure or Sterling.

 

These are just more examples of people looking for reasons to be offended.

 

He was not recorded without his consent. He told the girl to record his conversations because of his fading memory.