There are a lot of schools in 5A and 6A who dont have the athletes walking the halls that can or do play football. Big numbers in school dont mean lots of good players.

I'm having trouble attaching the table but students with learning disabilities participate in extra-curriculars at about 78% while those without participate at 82%

 

Household Income.

Youth from wealthier households are significantly more likely to have taken part in an extracurricular activity than

youth from lower-income households (83% for the highest-income group, compared with 70% of

those in the lowest-income group, p<.001>

These findings suggest that there may be financial barriers to access or entry into these activities for lower-income youth.

http://www.nlts2.org/reports/2003_04-2/nlts2_report_2003_04-2_ch4.pdf

http://a.espncdn.com/magazine/ipad/issues/YouthWebGraphic2.jpg

Look at the 9-12 numbers for sport participation and tell me every school is the same.

http://a.espncdn.com/magazine/ipad/issues/YouthWebGraphic9.jpg

I thought of that at first but then what you get into is punishing teams for being good.

 

The same could be said about the team right on the fringe...37-38-39....they will play the best because the just weren't bad enough. 1 win too many in 4-5 years. I do like the idea though

Oh I forgot ESL students

Extra-curricular participation in sports and so... [J Sports Sci. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI

I think counting them less towards enrollment is a bunch of bunk. Learning disabilities and dyslexia can get you included in special education numbers, and there's no reason that kind of thing should play ANY role in your inclusion in an enrollment number. You can be just as productive a player on a team and just as valuable of a contributor with a learning disability or after eating a reduced lunch as you could otherwise.

 

 

Until VERY recently KY didn't observe dyslexia as a SPED disability. Even now it is not vastly identified...but that is changing.

I put way too much work into this thread today, but it is obvious statistically that 1000 students at school A is not always the same as 1000 students at school B.

Harry I don't really feel like its that touchy of a subject because the federal and state governments are tracking these numbers and categories every day in our public schools and there is free data available to anyone who wishes to look. This is a big basis of how districts formulate their school improvement plans.

I agree. Totally.

 

People want to pick and choose when they can talk about it.

 

It would all be confidential in terms of individuals, like it is now, so there shouldn't be a need to get feathers ruffled.

Good discussion. Looking back at his list of 36 teams and then reading the discussion about the "other" variables and it really sheds some light.

 

As I run down that list the vast majority are teams who you almost have to tag as "Unwinnable". These are the county schools or smaller independent schools that are crippled by the variables discussed as well as a borderline obsolete economy, drastic budget concerns, and a very high portion of free or reduced lunches.

 

Really the only teams I look at and think "they should not be in a position to be on this list" are:

Paintsville

Paris

Bishop Brossart

 

Two Independents with a semblance of history and a private school. Fort Knox is a curious case as well but I think the downfall in that program has numerous levels to look at.

 

It really is remarkable the effect a school's budget and administration has on a rural school. Prime example right now is Breathitt County.

 

Breathitt up until last year was truly one of the premier programs in EKY and probably a Top 25 program in the entire State of Kentucky. A very proud history is an understatement. Then the Breathitt County School System basically collapsed amidst budget issues and poor administrative guidance. Now Breathitt is a program in extreme danger. Their feeder system practically non-existent. Their budget slashed. Their legendary Head Coach gone. In the span of two years Breathitt has went from an annual title contender to a team who will be struggling to compete for a District Title.

 

Same thing with Sheldon Clark. In 2009 Sheldon Clark was playing in the State Semi-Finals and installing a brand new turf field. In 2013 they finish 0-10 and are never really competitive. Losers of 16 of their last 17 games with the lone win against lowly East Ridge. Their closest game a 24 point loss to afforementioned Breathitt County. Sheldon Clark's school is literally shut down due to being unsafe and the football program is forced to play Freshman from a lack of numbers. All the result of a dead economy in Martin County.

^^Great points.

This would probably be an unofficial-official way of looking at things, but merely looking at the Free and Reduced lunch/Spec Ed counts at Holmes compared to Highlands (add in both parent homes, both parents with college degrees) or even that of Highlands compared to a McCreary Central.

 

It's a touchy subject, no doubt. A huge pink elephant in the room that nobody wants to admit to noticing, but one that would be wrong for any of us not to accept/realize.

 

 

That's why I just roll my eyes at all of these "What does it take for a program to be like a Higlands, BG, etc?". There are the sound good...make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside answers; and then, there is reality which goes a lot deeper than "Great off season program" and "Youth League".

 

Would we be comparing the lunch counts at Holmes versus Highlands in basketball? You know where Holmes has beat Highlands in every game they've played since at least 2006 (10 of them I did not go back after that, it could be more)? Because somehow those counts must be putting Highlands at a tremendous disadvantage in basketball.

Well, since we don't apply any type of count to basketball (with exception to the mid season All A), I'm going to go out on a limb here and say no.

Well, since we don't apply any type of count to basketball (with exception to the mid season All A), I'm going to go out on a limb here and say no.

 

The point is how is 1000 students at one school different at 1000 students at another school in football...............but somehow that does not seem to matter in other sports?

You'd get a lawsuit quickly. Everything is set up and modified to allow kids with disabilities to be more successful. Now your saying because they have a disability they are worth less than a kid without a disability. Good luck getting anyone to put a name with that vote.

 

I was getting ready to post essentially the same. And whether a program is successful or not is dependent upon FAR many more factors than the number of economically disadvantaged students or students with learning differences.