February 20, 200620 yr I can only speak for myself 1. I will satisfied with either completely the same rules and regulatios and admistrativly operated the same or complete seperation. The Texas method is a close idea By this I assume you mean those issues you mentioned that are not athletic in scope, such as the alternative school example. 2. LEVEL PLAYING FIELDS I can't fathom that this will ever be the case, given the differences of public school systems across the state (i.e. open enrollment, independe districts, etc.) 3. none, never have said there is a point. But it leaves it up to everyone to decide for themselves. Not sure what's left for decision....Need a little more on that one.
February 20, 200620 yr You like the Texas system so much I have a solution for you. Move to Texas. Typical private response. You don't hear our side for closing the privates. Just a few on the private side that respond like that not all. Sorry if I implied that. Most are very intelligent and I respect them
February 20, 200620 yr If all our money goes to other requirements it doesn't leave much for athletics Understood. Wouldn't it seem to be a better solution, for ALL students in Kentucky, even non-athletes, to push for reform in our legislation regarding kids who refuse to learn, participate or are disruptive? It just seems to me that pushing the private schools out of the athletic post-season does nothing to solve the issues that you mention as being disadvantages for public schools.
February 20, 200620 yr Typical private response. You don't hear our side for closing the privates. Just a few on the private side that respond like that not all. Sorry if I implied that. Most are very intelligent and I respect them Way to paint with a broad brush.
February 20, 200620 yr Understood. Wouldn't it seem to be a better solution, for ALL students in Kentucky, even non-athletes, to push for reform in our legislation regarding kids who refuse to learn, participate or are disruptive? It just seems to me that pushing the private schools out of the athletic post-season does nothing to solve the issues that you mention as being disadvantages for public schools. That is a seperate issue we totally agree on but on the athletic tournament situation, the publics are at a disadvantadge not all but 90%. Some super districts have such great enrollment they can afford a top class athletic program and do compete with the privates and maybe not fair to the privates because of enrollment sizes. But most school distrcits do not equal the level of the Diocese of Covington either. So it is not balanced. No one is pushing the privates out of post season. They can have thier own and if I were a betting man they would draw large crowds make as much money and probaly be more successful that the publics.
February 20, 200620 yr That is a seperate issue we totally agree on but on the athletic tournament situation, the publics are at a disadvantadge not all but 90%. Some super districts have such great enrollment they can afford a top class athletic program and do compete with the privates and maybe not fair to the privates because of enrollment sizes. But most school distrcits do not equal the level of the Diocese of Covington either. So it is not balanced. No one is pushing the privates out of post season. They can have thier own and if I were a betting man they would draw large crowds make as much money and probaly be more successful that the publics. Okay I was off base with my 2. answer and said so prior to your reply, sorry. But I still can't understand why you worry about the Diocese of Covington size? Heck CovCath and NDA have more in common with Highlands or Dixie than Holy Cross, and NewCath and Brossart are going to after each other when BB starts playing football, and in ten years St. Henry will be the force that CovCath and NewCath were once, with all growth in Boone County, that will surely help them. In our neck of the woods Kenton County has open enrollment, and Boone County is what the second largest school system in the Commonwealth? And if Campbell didn't have so many Independents in it I would imagine it would be one of the larger ones also.....so what did we do so wrong. BTW read the article from todays Lexington Herald Leader about how 54% of high school Kentucky students who go on to college are not prepared for college. That is what we all should be mad and fighting about and not sports.......
February 21, 200620 yr See the Texas solution!!!! You are right I do not care how you spend your money time and energy at the private school sector and it is none of my business. I just want to let the privates do whatever they want and the publics do the same. If then we all go by the same rules and enforcements including state mandates that cost public schools a ton of money on what I believe are wasteful and non productive programs. I believe the privates do a much better job than the publics in the administration of thier systems. You either manage the same way or go seperate ways. In Texas the privates do just fine without competing with the publics. I support your way of education and admire the way your students compete in acedemics and athletics. You are not in the same situation as the publics. And the question I have never got an answer to is why not play just the privates, why is that such a bad idea if you have nothing to fear why not. Playing just privates might be ok for large cities but it would be the end of all sports at small schools(especially in rural areas) which cant travel hours to play because of time and financial reasons In some areas there are no other private schools within a 1-2 hour drive
February 21, 200620 yr There is not enough room on this forum for those answers but I will point in the right direction to do some research. Schools must spend tons of dollars on seperate programs such as alternative schools for at risk kids. Our distrct has 1 principal and 3 teachers for this program that do nothing else but administrate and teach. Our average enrollment is 5.5 students. We had to build a seperate school building for this program. /the money spent at the B?OE on state compliance is crazy. It is the bureacracy that is our problem and we are not asking the privates to share in this mess. There are many other programs like the alternative school program that tie up our assets both personnel and financial. So what is the objection to playing a private school tournament. I do not how to be any simple than that. I can be just as simple. There are not enough private schools to have a private playoff. In football there are two private 4A schools. The state takes all revenue from the state finals. A separate system would have cost Trinity $80,000 to $100,000 this past year (my estimate) and shortened the season by four games. There are lots of other reasons, but those are sufficient.
February 21, 200620 yr Okay I was off base with my 2. answer and said so prior to your reply, sorry. But I still can't understand why you worry about the Diocese of Covington size? Heck CovCath and NDA have more in common with Highlands or Dixie than Holy Cross, and NewCath and Brossart are going to after each other when BB starts playing football, and in ten years St. Henry will be the force that CovCath and NewCath were once, with all growth in Boone County, that will surely help them. In our neck of the woods Kenton County has open enrollment, and Boone County is what the second largest school system in the Commonwealth? And if Campbell didn't have so many Independents in it I would imagine it would be one of the larger ones also.....so what did we do so wrong. [B]BTW read the article from todays Lexington Herald Leader about how 54% of high school Kentucky students who go on to college are not prepared for college. That is what we all should be mad and fighting about and not sports....... Truly the most important issue!! Great post[/b]
February 21, 200620 yr Because with only 2 teams there would be no playoff games only a championship game. All football playoff games (other then the championship game) are split gates. They bring in lots of money for Trinity (and their opponent). Conversely it would also cost the public schools that would benefit from the large following that Trinity has in the playoffs money because as far as I was able to tell in the last 6 years Trinity has always had the larger crowd in playoff games (home or away).
February 21, 200620 yr Why would it cost St X or Trinity 80,000 to 100000. Add it up. Ticket sales for the first four rounds of the playoffs are split, after expenses, by the two teams. Average attendance at the first four rounds was about 6,500 @ $6.00 per ticket. That's a gross gate of $39,000 per game or $156,000. In addition, Trinity has two suites that rent for $5,000 per game each. For four playoff games, that's $40,000. Since that isn't ticket revenue, my guess is that they don't have to split that money. Let me repeat that these are my estimates and I have no official knowledge. Concession stand revenue would be on top of that. Under a private/public split, the first four rounds of the playoffs would not exist for the privates so that revenue would be gone.
February 22, 200620 yr Author Please, anyone, can you answer these questions for me? Can anyone define the situation in which the public schools will be completely satisfied with the future of KHSAA sports? Exactly what do the supporters of a split expect such action to accomplish? What is the point of playing the private schools in the regular season, if there will be no effect on the post season? It would do a LOT to help me understand the other side of this issue. I can't speak for all public supporters but to answer your questions from my perspective: I think if the KHSAA could eliminate private schools from eliminating public schools from post season competition, then the public side would be happy. In years past Lex. Catholic has had players play there from Mercer Co. and from Franklin Co. So when they eliminate a public team, hard feelings are raised. When I think back a few years ago to the East Jessamine Team that was a state contender , but it never got the opportunity to get to Rupp because Lex. Cath. defeated them in the district or region. I do not know if Lex. Cath. had any players on that team that transferred in or not. But because they had "others" transfer there in the past, the public perception is that they have an unfair advantage. As far as playing them in the regular season, we have played Lexington Catholic, and Trinity, and St. X. in the past, and the private schools have won every meeting. Do I harbor hard feelings about those losses? no. Because my school is going to play the same number of games regardless of if we win or lose in the regular season. Also I have talked to a former Trinity football coach that has told me of how he used to drive 30 minutes into Indiana to pick up a player that had no transportation every morning and took him home every evening. You see stories like this lead me to believe that Trinity has an unfair advantage. On another note: the North Laurel team that brought in 3 recruits( oh I am sorry) 3 foreign exchange students. They beat us in the regular season and I didn't think much about it, however when they eliminated us from the the district tournament, i was extremely upset with them.
February 23, 200620 yr Add it up. Ticket sales for the first four rounds of the playoffs are split, after expenses, by the two teams. Average attendance at the first four rounds was about 6,500 @ $6.00 per ticket. That's a gross gate of $39,000 per game or $156,000. In addition, Trinity has two suites that rent for $5,000 per game each. For four playoff games, that's $40,000. Since that isn't ticket revenue, my guess is that they don't have to split that money. Let me repeat that these are my estimates and I have no official knowledge. Concession stand revenue would be on top of that. Under a private/public split, the first four rounds of the playoffs would not exist for the privates so that revenue would be gone. Just Curious? How many public schools have two private boxes they can rent out. 40,000 is over 4 times our complete athletic budget for 05/06. $9,100 includes everything but coaches pay. Of course to be fair we do not have a football program, so I understand a football school needs more money. Just trying to show more dispariaty between private and public
February 23, 200620 yr Just Curious? How many public schools have two private boxes they can rent out. Not sure, but we built ours when we built our new stadium....which was built with monies donated by alum, students, parents, and friends of Trinity.
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