Computer was down last night when it happened, so I couldn't post then. But, am I the only who was completely shocked that they didn't have Hamilton steal 3rd when Phillips was batting in the top of the 9th?

 

I mean, why bunt a guy over to 3rd, who's already proved he's capable of stealing? It seemed like it was a perfect scenario for them with a right handed batter up. I know Phillips is getting hammered for running in the baseline, and Votto the same for swinging at the first pitch...but why wasn't Hamilton running earlier? For the life of me, I just don't understand.

 

You could've gone with a double steal (sending both Hamilton and Choo)...they can't throw out both of them. Or send Hamilton by himself. And then on a subsequent pitch, send Choo. Dare them to throw it to 2nd, without having Hamilton steal home. Astros probably walk Phillips then to load the bases. Brings Votto up with the bags juiced and no outs. I like my chances of scoring.

 

Reds fortunate to come back and win this. If they're playing any other team in the league, it probably results in an "L".

 

I don't disagree with any of this, although I did agree with bunting Phillips there, and it would have worked out, had he not been a moron. Votto, the most selective hitter in the league, has to understand the situation. No excuse for swinging at the first pitch there.

 

I'll say this, I know Dusty wasn't directly responsible for either blunder, but when it's stupid mistake after stupid mistake, game after game, it comes back to poor preparation and fundamentals, which IMO, are the two things a manager has the most direct insight and control over. Just dumb.

 

And don't even get me started on bringing in Duke to face 2 straight righties....:ohbrother:

Totally agree and they got the win anyway which I was trying to explain to Crash a few weeks ago. Dusty was a horrible decision maker and they still got the win. I'm sure Crash will jump in any moment and say his decisions were great though because they got the W.

 

Dusty said last night that he gave Hamilton the green light. Baseball people know you rarely give a straight steal at 2B. Does he need to give Votto the take sign? Does he need to go over base running with his second baseman?

 

He didn't guess correctly on every decision...obviously...but, like always, you guys want to put it on him instead of holding the right people accountable. Base running is atrocious and costs them 2 runs per week. When you don't score a ton of runs those are huge. As a whole, MLB players are terrible at running bases.

 

He bunted Phillips and it didn't work. He didn't bunt Phillips and it didn't work. He, clearly, made an adjustment and it still didn't work out. That's what managers do. No one will comment on that, though.

I don't disagree with any of this, although I did agree with bunting Phillips there, and it would have worked out, had he not been a moron. Votto, the most selective hitter in the league, has to understand the situation. No excuse for swinging at the first pitch there.

 

I'll say this, I know Dusty wasn't directly responsible for either blunder, but when it's stupid mistake after stupid mistake, game after game, it comes back to poor preparation and fundamentals, which IMO, are the two things a manager has the most direct insight and control over. Just dumb.

 

And don't even get me started on bringing in Duke to face 2 straight righties....:ohbrother:

 

Do you really think guys learn fundamentals in MLB? It's not HS baseball. You don't practice 3 days a week. You expect guys to be fundamentally sound when they get to that level, period.

 

The Duke decision...STUPID!!!!!!

Dusty said last night that he gave Hamilton the green light. Baseball people know you rarely give a straight steal at 2B. Does he need to give Votto the take sign? Does he need to go over base running with his second baseman?

 

He didn't guess correctly on every decision...obviously...but, like always, you guys want to put it on him instead of holding the right people accountable. Base running is atrocious and costs them 2 runs per week. When you don't score a ton of runs those are huge. As a whole, MLB players are terrible at running bases.

 

He bunted Phillips and it didn't work. He didn't bunt Phillips and it didn't work. He, clearly, made an adjustment and it still didn't work out. That's what managers do. No one will comment on that, though.

 

Did you miss the post about exactly how bad the math is on giving up an out by bunting? Also weren't you the one touting BP as the clutch hitter with RISP? Why then give up the out with the clutch hitting BP at the plate?

I don't disagree with any of this, although I did agree with bunting Phillips there, and it would have worked out, had he not been a moron. Votto, the most selective hitter in the league, has to understand the situation. No excuse for swinging at the first pitch there.

 

I'll say this, I know Dusty wasn't directly responsible for either blunder, but when it's stupid mistake after stupid mistake, game after game, it comes back to poor preparation and fundamentals, which IMO are the two things a manager has the most direct insight and control over. Just dumb.

 

And don't even get me started on bringing in Duke to face 2 straight righties....:ohbrother:

 

So, playing out the scenario...Phillips bunts Hamilton and Choo over. With one out and a base open, Astros walk Votto. Bases loaded for Bruce. A double play takes them out of the inning, without having to throw Hamilton out. I'd MUCH rather have Hamilton on 3rd with no outs. Force Houston to throw him out at the plate at some point in time.

 

If it was ANYBODY else (including probably Choo) at 2nd base, I'd be more in line with the thinking. But, good gracious...how many times have we heard it's easier to steal 3rd than it is 2nd? I just think the Reds (Dusty) was too willing to give up an out they didn't need to there.

So, playing out the scenario...Phillips bunts Hamilton and Choo over. With one out and a base open, Astros walk Votto. Bases loaded for Bruce. A double play takes them out of the inning, without having to throw Hamilton out. I'd MUCH rather have Hamilton on 3rd with no outs. Force Houston to throw him out at the plate at some point in time.

 

If it was ANYBODY else (including probably Choo) at 2nd base, I'd be more in line with the thinking. But, good gracious...how many times have we heard it's easier to steal 3rd than it is 2nd? I just think the Reds (Dusty) was too willing to give up an out they didn't need to there.

 

These guys are ML hitters, and Bruce is en fuego right now...No doubt in my mind he'd have put it in the air, at the very least.

Did you miss the post about exactly how bad the math is on giving up an out by bunting? Also weren't you the one touting BP as the clutch hitter with RISP? Why then give up the out with the clutch hitting BP at the plate?

 

I saw the math. Again, it's not just about math. It's about the situation. That math didn't include the 18 DP's BP has hit into. Does that math include when you are bunting the 2 hole guy with the best hitter on your team next and one of the hottest on the team after him? That's why math doesn't always work. If it did, robots would be managing.

 

I don't think I touted him as clutch. I'm not sure I have brought up many numbers at all for anyone because that's not my thing. Doesn't matter, he had a chance later, so Dusty took your math into account, and he still didn't get it done. I could be wrong. I may have mentioned his RBI total.

These guys are ML hitters, and Bruce is en fuego right now...No doubt in my mind he'd have put it in the air, at the very least.

 

Agreed. That was one scenario where I was fine with them walking Votto.

Defending Dusty has to be getting more difficult by the day....That was a clinic in bad baseball decisions last night.

 

Yeah, "By the Book" Dusty was on his game last night ... except that lefty/righty pitching matchup. Has anyone heard what his reasoning was on that one?

I saw the math. Again, it's not just about math. It's about the situation. That math didn't include the 18 DP's BP has hit into. Does that math include when you are bunting the 2 hole guy with the best hitter on your team next and one of the hottest on the team after him? That's why math doesn't always work. If it did, robots would be managing.

 

I don't think I touted him as clutch. I'm not sure I have brought up many numbers at all for anyone because that's not my thing. Doesn't matter, he had a chance later, so Dusty took your math into account, and he still didn't get it done. I could be wrong. I may have mentioned his RBI total.

 

You just choose to ignore the math which is fine but lets not say it's anything other than that. And also yes it does include the possibility of the hitter grounding into a double play. This isn't short term math. This is data compiled over years and years of these exact situations.

 

Didn't BP try to bunt in the next AB but was unsuccessful.

So, playing out the scenario...Phillips bunts Hamilton and Choo over. With one out and a base open, Astros walk Votto. Bases loaded for Bruce. A double play takes them out of the inning, without having to throw Hamilton out. I'd MUCH rather have Hamilton on 3rd with no outs. Force Houston to throw him out at the plate at some point in time.

 

If it was ANYBODY else (including probably Choo) at 2nd base, I'd be more in line with the thinking. But, good gracious...how many times have we heard it's easier to steal 3rd than it is 2nd? I just think the Reds (Dusty) was too willing to give up an out they didn't need to there.

 

Here's the thing. The pitcher had thrown 9 straight balls to start the inning leading up to BP trying to bunt. Also if BP just squares to bunt but takes the pitch and the third baseman charges which he was Hamilton would have almost no chance at being thrown out stealing 3rd.

 

Also BP was a moron to the highest degree to run down the line where he did. The manager was ok giving up the out and BP wasn't. That isn't on Dusty even though trying to bunt was dumb.

You just choose to ignore the math which is fine but lets not say it's anything other than that.

 

Not all the math, which is what you choose to ignore. It's impossible to make decisions based on math alone. To think otherwise shows lack of understanding.

In the 9th, when Hamilton was on 3rd and they were intentionally walking Bruce, did anyone else half expect him to break for home?

Edited September 19, 201312 yr by UKMustangFan

I don't disagree with any of this, although I did agree with bunting Phillips there, and it would have worked out, had he not been a moron. Votto, the most selective hitter in the league, has to understand the situation. No excuse for swinging at the first pitch there.

 

The bunt/out was 100% on BP. That is a horrible, horrible mental mistake. His job was to sacrifice & get the runners over (which I agreed with). He laid down a good bunt but made the type of mental mistake that I've seen far too often from BP.

 

If BP would've done his job, Astros would have walked Votto to load the bases & the Reds would have needed a fly ball from the #4 hitter to seal the deal & bring Chapman in for the 9th.

 

I cannot get upset with Votto swinging at the 1st pitch. It was a good pitch to hit & he drove it hard. Hamilton has the green light to steal, and I think he went on his own. Votto gets criticized for not driving in runs & being too selective...so I cannot criticize him for being aggressive & lining the 1st pitch 400 feet to straight away center.

 

Just a bad break.

 

 

And don't even get me started on bringing in Duke to face 2 straight righties....:ohbrother:

 

I think you mean Manny Parra & I agree one million %.

 

 

 

I think you mean Manny Parra & I agree one million %.

 

No, it was definitely Duke. This was in the 9th or extra innings.