Basically what I'm saying dragon is you have no more than 250 student difference in every single class until 6A where there is over 1000 student difference. Not very balanced if you ask me nor very fair.

 

My numbers are for males only. So even in 6A there is not a 1,000 student difference in male enrollment. The range there is 704-1,371. The 1,371 is St. X, an outlier by 74 students, so for the most part the class range from 704-1,297. Breaking it down further, 29 schools fall in a range of 704-989. The 6 schools above are all 1,100 or more. It seems to me that your "fair" proposal is that we establish a 6 team class at the top, because there's no other way around the fact that St. X would be nearly 400 males above any other team in Kentucky.

 

How's this for a hard and fast rule. St. X is the highest male enrollment at 1,371. Fulton City is the lowest at 50. That's a difference of 1,321. Divide that by 6, you get 220 difference in each class (since Fulton City is at 50, I'll go 220 above them).

 

1A: 0-270 (58 teams)

2A: 271-490 (80 teams)

3A: 491-710 (51 teams)

4A: 711-930 (21 teams)

5A: 931-1,150 (7 teams)

6A: 1,150+ (4 teams)

 

There's some balance.

Why does it really matter if a class has more teams than other classes?

 

The enrollment numbers should be the deciding factors not how many are in each class.

 

No way should a class have a school in it that has double the male enrollment than another school in the same class.

 

The argument I propose is that there is no objective reason to have classes with different number of teams except due to simple rounding. And this IS how it was done prior to the most reason adjustment. It can be argued that limiting 1A and 6A to 32 teams was purely a subjective (and thus arbitrary) action. From the standpoint of a student-athlete this means that all 1A and 6A players will have a chance to compete in the playoffs. While all those in 2A through 5A will not have the same opportunity. So the regulation limiting of 1A and 6A creates different results for student-athletes who are otherwise similarly situated.

 

Using the 0-10 scenario. A 0-10 small or very large school WILL make the playoffs - guaranteed. A 0-10 team in the middle classes will not make the playoffs. So again, same sport, same result but due to the difference of being in a very small or very large school vs. a middle sized school the results will be different. With all objective factors being the same the current setup leads to different treatment merely based on the size of your school.

 

This is why the splits were purely mathematical prior to the recent change. Schools that only had a minute difference in enrollment would end up in different classes since the where ever the dividing line fell that was where the split was.

 

I see why the current set-up was done. And do not even disagree with the (subjective) logic that lead to it. But it is definitely 'arbitrary' and as such may not be constitutional in its application.

 

This need to avoid abitrary make-up is also why districts were formed by objective mileage distances between schools. But with the super-district that objective method seems to have been thrown out. The argument could be made that if this is valid to do with the 6A schools in Louisville why not apply the same method in 4A and create a super district of Highlands, CovCath, LexCath and Boyle County?

My numbers are for males only. So even in 6A there is not a 1,000 student difference in male enrollment. The range there is 704-1,371. The 1,371 is St. X, an outlier by 74 students, so for the most part the class range from 704-1,297. Breaking it down further, 29 schools fall in a range of 704-989. The 6 schools above are all 1,100 or more. It seems to me that your "fair" proposal is that we establish a 6 team class at the top, because there's no other way around the fact that St. X would be nearly 400 males above any other team in Kentucky.

 

How's this for a hard and fast rule. St. X is the highest male enrollment at 1,371. Fulton City is the lowest at 50. That's a difference of 1,321. Divide that by 6, you get 220 difference in each class (since Fulton City is at 50, I'll go 220 above them).

 

1A: 0-270 (58 teams)

2A: 271-490 (80 teams)

3A: 491-710 (51 teams)

4A: 711-930 (21 teams)

5A: 931-1,150 (7 teams)

6A: 1,150+ (4 teams)

 

There's some balance.

Your original idea had 6A as enrollment from 700+ that would mean you would have close to double the male enrollment from the smallest 6A team to the biggest, those schools being Southern with 706 to St X with over 1300.

 

That is quite the difference when all the other classes you originally suggested had no more than a 220 enrollment difference.

Your original idea had 6A as enrollment from 700+ that would mean you would have close to double the male enrollment from the smallest 6A team to the biggest, those schools being Southern with 706 to St X with over 1300.

 

That is quite the difference when all the other classes you originally suggested had no more than a 250 enrollment difference.

 

I put it to you to suggest something different. You realize it is almost exactly the same under the current scenario, yes? Muhlenberg County has 721 males, the smallest project 6A school. St. X is nearly 90% larger than them. They are 57% larger than what would be the 16th largest school in the state by male enrollment, that being Simon Kenton at 872 - still a difference of nearly 500 students.

 

I proposed something that would allow them to at least maintain a playoff system of 5 weeks. Even a 4 week playoff (16 teams) would seem to be untenable by your standards. Neither I or anyone else can make St. X smaller. They are nearly 400 males or more larger than every other school in the state with the exception of five other schools.

 

By your logic, I would argue it is no more fair for Fulton City to have to compete with teams that are 4 times their size.

I proposed something that would allow them to at least maintain a playoff system of 5 weeks. Even a 4 week playoff (16 teams) would seem to be untenable by your standards. Neither I or anyone else can make St. X smaller. They are nearly 400 males or more larger than every other school in the state with the exception of five other schools.

 

Westsider used to argue in favor of a 6A class that only had Trinity and St. X due to their huge discrepancy in enrollment.

I put it to you to suggest something different. You realize it is almost exactly the same under the current scenario, yes? Muhlenberg County has 721 males, the smallest project 6A school. St. X is nearly 90% larger than them. They are 57% larger than what would be the 16th largest school in the state by male enrollment, that being Simon Kenton at 872 - still a difference of nearly 500 students.

 

I proposed something that would allow them to at least maintain a playoff system of 5 weeks. Even a 4 week playoff (16 teams) would seem to be untenable by your standards. Neither I or anyone else can make St. X smaller. They are nearly 400 males or more larger than every other school in the state with the exception of five other schools.

 

By your logic, I would argue it is no more fair for Fulton City to have to compete with teams that are 4 times their size.

No one will like this, but I always thought their should be a private school class that competes for their own title. The rest, public and independent schools would be broken up just like it is currently.

 

Thats just me. Make the private schools be more like the GCL or something, a league of their own.

I put it to you to suggest something different. You realize it is almost exactly the same under the current scenario, yes? Muhlenberg County has 721 males, the smallest project 6A school. St. X is nearly 90% larger than them. They are 57% larger than what would be the 16th largest school in the state by male enrollment, that being Simon Kenton at 872 - still a difference of nearly 500 students.

 

I proposed something that would allow them to at least maintain a playoff system of 5 weeks. Even a 4 week playoff (16 teams) would seem to be untenable by your standards. Neither I or anyone else can make St. X smaller. They are nearly 400 males or more larger than every other school in the state with the exception of five other schools.

 

By your logic, I would argue it is no more fair for Fulton City to have to compete with teams that are 4 times their size.

I didn't give a suggestion on school size, so how could my logic be wrong?

 

I simply stated your idea isn't fair to schools of 700 or larger. If anything make your division a little closer to size difference for each class.

I didn't give a suggestion on school size, so how could my logic be wrong?

 

I simply stated your idea isn't fair to schools of 700 or larger. If anything make your division a little closer to size difference for each class.

 

Your logic is wrong because it is impossible to accomplish while maintaining a class large enough to have a full playoff system in place. There have to be at least 32 teams in the top class. That would be a difference of 650 students between St. X and Muhlenberg County. Even cutting off a week, a 16 team class would still be a difference of nearly 500 students. Your indication that I should make it a little closer is not tenable. The difference between the largest and smallest in 6A will always be significantly larger than any other class. We have 140 schools with less than 500 males, only 71 above that mark. It is, what it is.

 

This is what that revision would look like with a 16 team highest class.

 

1A: 0-220 (37 teams)

2A: 221-320 (41 teams)

3A: 321-429 (40 teams)

4A: 430-579 (45 teams)

5A: 580-870 (42 teams)

6A: 871-1371 (16 teams)

 

 

FYI, your suggestion of eliminating the private schools does not do much for this either. Scott County is 1,217 males strong. While that is 154 less than St. X, they would still be 507 males higher than the smallest 6A team in a 32 team 6A that did not involve St. X and Trinity.

No one will like this, but I always thought their should be a private school class that competes for their own title. The rest, public and independent schools would be broken up just like it is currently.

 

Thats just me. Make the private schools be more like the GCL or something, a league of their own.

 

Decent thought, but there are only 14 private schools that play football in Kentucky. The gap between St. X and Trinity and the next largest private school (Covington Catholic) is over 750 boys. Then you drop down to the likes of Kentucky Country Day, Bethlehem, Bishop Brossart and you would have to split a private division into at least two classes and probably three, which would be about five teams each.

No one will like this, but I always thought their should be a private school class that competes for their own title. The rest, public and independent schools would be broken up just like it is currently.

 

Thats just me. Make the private schools be more like the GCL or something, a league of their own.

 

The GCL is a conference that Catholic HS in and around Southwestern Ohio compete in but they still compete in the OHSAA Football Tournament based on the enrollment of their schools be they pubic, private or independent!

 

In Ohio you earn your right to play in the Tournament, it isn't a given that everybody is going to make the tournament and a lot of very good teams don't make it year after year!

Read about the GCL

 

I know you don't what to be in 6A but The Boone County Board Education could have done what Scott County is doing and that is not having a huge number of HS campuses just a maybe two large HS.

The GCL is a conference that Catholic HS in and around Southwestern Ohio compete in but they still compete in the OHSAA Football Tournament based on the enrollment of their schools be they pubic, private or independent!

 

In Ohio you earn your right to play in the Tournament, it isn't a given that everybody is going to make the tournament and a lot of very good teams don't make it year after year!

Read about the GCL

 

I know you don't what to be in 6A but The Boone County Board Education could have done what Scott County is doing and that is not having a huge number of HS campuses just a maybe two large HS.

I am not worried about being in 6A. Actually Cooper isn't going to be put in 6A, I actually was speaking up for the schools that aren't nearly as big as the St X's of the world, not speaking about Cooper. I'm actually being very unbiased in this.

Your logic is wrong because it is impossible to accomplish while maintaining a class large enough to have a full playoff system in place. There have to be at least 32 teams in the top class. That would be a difference of 650 students between St. X and Muhlenberg County. Even cutting off a week, a 16 team class would still be a difference of nearly 500 students. Your indication that I should make it a little closer is not tenable. The difference between the largest and smallest in 6A will always be significantly larger than any other class. We have 140 schools with less than 500 males, only 71 above that mark. It is, what it is.

 

This is what that revision would look like with a 16 team highest class.

 

1A: 0-220 (37 teams)

2A: 221-320 (41 teams)

3A: 321-429 (40 teams)

4A: 430-579 (45 teams)

5A: 580-870 (42 teams)

6A: 871-1371 (16 teams)

 

 

FYI, your suggestion of eliminating the private schools does not do much for this either. Scott County is 1,217 males strong. While that is 154 less than St. X, they would still be 507 males higher than the smallest 6A team in a 32 team 6A that did not involve St. X and Trinity.

I guess the difficulty I'm having is why there HAS to be 32 teams in a class? Who really cares how many schools are in a class? Who cares if all the classes don't have a playoff game in week 1 of the playoffs etc. I just never understood why people care if there are 32 teams in a class or not? It's not like the champions from each class are playing eachother to determine an overall champion like they do in every other sport.

 

So why does it matter if there are 32 teams in 6A or 20 teams in 6A? If people have a problem with some districts in classes having every team make the playoffs, then why not do what I suggested last year across the state and that is to simply have the first 2 weeks of the post season set to have a district tourney, then the winner from each district then goes on to a regional tourney, then the winner from each regional tourney play for state championship in their class?

 

That way you would have more excitement in each district and the travel for away teams wouldn't be so far in the first 2 weeks, you have each class divided into 8 districts state wide, the 8 district winners then go to regional tournament, regional split either east and west or north and south or whatever and those are made up of 4 districts each, the winner of each region (east and west) then play against eachother for state title in that class.

I am not worried about being in 6A. Actually Cooper isn't going to be put in 6A, I actually was speaking up for the schools that aren't nearly as big as the St X's of the world, not speaking about Cooper. I'm actually being very unbiased in this.

 

So you feel the same about Scott County, Henderson County and other huge public school too?

 

Kentucky should reduce the number of divisions back to four and then I will agree with four from each district moving on but with the size of the divisions and some only having four in them, it's a joke.

 

BTW CovCath and HHS division has only four teams in it. CovCath, Harrison County, HHS and Holmes.

 

Do you honestly think that HC which lost to CovCath 61-0 HHS 69-10 and lost to Holmes 14-0 deserved to be in the playoffs? Harrison County only win for the season was against Pendleton County and they dropped out of playing in the Tournament that year!

 

How much money do you think Johnson Central lost having to pay Harrison County travel expenses and such for the JC vs. HC game?

 

How about this then, if you want four teams to make it, then have that 3rd and 4th seeded team pay the cost of them playing in the tourney and not having the 1st and 2nd seeded teams footing the expenses! Wanna beat if that happened those AD would change there minds on the vote.

So you feel the same about Scott County, Henderson County and other huge public school too?

 

Kentucky should reduce the number of divisions back to four and then I will agree with four from each district moving on but with the size of the divisions and some only having four in them, it's a joke.

 

BTW CovCath and HHS division has only four teams in it. CovCath, Harrison County, HHS and Holmes.

 

Do you honestly think that HC which lost to CovCath 61-0 HHS 69-10 and lost to Holmes 14-0 deserved to be in the playoffs? Harrison County only win for the season was against Pendleton County and they dropped out of playing in the Tournament that year!

 

How much money do you think Johnson County lost having to pay Harrison County travel expenses and such for the JC vs. HC game?

 

How about this then, if you want four teams to make it, then have that 3rd and 4th seeded team pay the cost of them playing in the tourney and not having the 1st and 2nd seeded teams footing the expenses! Wanna beat if that happened those AD would change there minds on the vote.

My biggest thing is, why does it bother you and others so much if a team is in the playoffs or not? Who cares if Holmes is in HHS and CCH playoffs? If you don't want to watch that game then don't go.

 

The only argument I've ever heard on here has always been about some teams shouldn't play in the playoffs....who is it hurting? Who cares if there are 4 teams in the playoffs, why isn't the same stink made in baseball and basketball? Who are we to tell a kid who has played football for 12 years of his life that because he plays on the 4th worst team in his district he doesn't deserve to play one last time in his life because some 55 year old man who has nothing to do with his team doesn't want to watch a game that ends up 48-0.

 

Why bring a stupid argument about paying for the cost even up in this....do you say the same thing about the other sports? That is just stupid. If money is such an issue and a school can't afford it even after fundraising then maybe that school shouldn't have football then. If they can't afford to play then why have a team?

 

 

I just never understood why someone would 1 want to keep a kid from playing in one last game and 2 Care if a team losses by 4+ TD's. Especially when lower rated teams are the ones blowing out some higher rated teams. It's just a game, let the kids play.

I guess the difficulty I'm having is why there HAS to be 32 teams in a class? Who really cares how many schools are in a class? Who cares if all the classes don't have a playoff game in week 1 of the playoffs etc. I just never understood why people care if there are 32 teams in a class or not? It's not like the champions from each class are playing eachother to determine an overall champion like they do in every other sport.

 

So why does it matter if there are 32 teams in 6A or 20 teams in 6A? If people have a problem with some districts in classes having every team make the playoffs, then why not do what I suggested last year across the state and that is to simply have the first 2 weeks of the post season set to have a district tourney, then the winner from each district then goes on to a regional tourney, then the winner from each regional tourney play for state championship in their class?

 

That way you would have more excitement in each district and the travel for away teams wouldn't be so far in the first 2 weeks, you have each class divided into 8 districts state wide, the 8 district winners then go to regional tournament, regional split either east and west or north and south or whatever and those are made up of 4 districts each, the winner of each region (east and west) then play against eachother for state title in that class.

 

First and foremost, you need all the playoffs to finish the same weekend to maintain a unified finals weekend (and you'd need to unless you want to rent a neutral venue out for a single day the week before). If you don't have 32 teams and you drop to say 16 (as I suggested in the post you replied to) that means the 6A schools are playing a week longer in the regular season - a week in which they can't play any other team in Kentucky outside of their class. Also now your eight districts would have only two teams in each. You could mandate they play their district partner, but then they'd play two straight weeks under your proposal. That means finding an out of state opponent to play the first or second week of November or gassing up the bus for in some cases a long trip to another 6A school. Or taking a bye week the week before the playoffs if that's your cup of tea. You could have four districts of four teams apiece, but you note travel, which becomes a greater concern the less teams you have in a class. Ryle and Simon Kenton would be in a district together as the only NKY teams and the smallest in the class. If either dropped but not the other, huge travel increase. Same for McCracken County and Henderson County in the west, though neither are likely ever to fall down from the highest class even under a 16 team system. If you didn't drop as far as 16 teams, you're not really diminishing your enrollment disparity very much. If you dropped beyond 16 teams, now you're cutting the playoffs even further and continuing the scheduling problems.

 

And again, I can't emphasize this enough, a 16 team class still does not solve the extremely large disparity. It reduces it by roughly 150. It still will be 500 males from the 16th largest school to the largest. Still way larger disparity than any other class possible. If you arbitrarily chopped off X & Trinity, it still would be 353 to Scott County (adding in GRC and Madison Central to take their place). Still larger than any other class possible.

 

I really feel like you're telling me what you think is fair, I'm telling you what is reality. It is not possible to get the gap down even as far as 300 - there'd be 6 teams in the class.