I see this as a very interesting debate among conservatives - strong national defense vs. lack of government trust.

 

Very true, that's one reason I made the thread. I honestly don't know where I stand as of yet.

 

Is that the litmus test? John Boehner speaks for small government minded people?

 

Feinstein agrees with Boehner.

 

No, not the litmus test. Just pointing out that the highest ranking conservative (Boehner) called him a traitor.

No, not the litmus test. Just pointing out that the highest ranking conservative (Boehner) called him a traitor.

 

I think you did too.

 

Ya know somethings wrong when you're agreeing with Boehner. And Cantor, and McConnell, and John McCain, and Lindsay Graham, and Dick Cheney.

Whats so ironic is the fact everyone is dissing his decision to go to China.

 

Ya know....because they're communist and don't believe in freedom......and spy on their citizens through......their internet searches.....phone records....cameras.....drones....credit card purchases.....FB check-ins......twitter feeds.....emails....FB Chats.....

 

Of course by demanding companies do this through orders stemming from the government.

 

Yeah.

 

That's totally un-'merican.

I think you did too.

 

Ya know somethings wrong when you're agreeing with Boehner. And Cantor, and McConnell, and John McCain, and Lindsay Graham, and Dick Cheney.

 

I did call him a traitor. And IMO he is. If it comes out that this information is being used improperly, I will rethink my opinion of him. Until then, he is a traitor.

Hong Kong is not beholden to the laws of the Republic of China......

 

I agree it didn't look the best but its kind of a smart move. He doesn't want to be tried in a court over here because he will be like Bradley Manning. We won't hear a peep and he will suffer and spend the rest of his days in jail.

It is now under the PRC, and you can't go anywhere in HK without tripping over their agents, heck, there are more PRC agents in HK than the US had in Moscow and the USSR had in DC/NYC combined at any time during the cold war.

 

Tried in court or held by China and "thoroughly" questioned by the PRC? Not sure there is a smart move here, as we still may not hear a peep from him, at least as a free man. He at least acts like he knows everything. The PRC knows that we spy on them, as we know they spy on us. But he may know which channels of bugging/spying is working, he may know which people and phone lines successfully are being traced. But as I said, there are several other countries that he could have gone to.

 

But the proper channels that Habib asked, going to a few congressmen is one option, if he didn't want to go up the chain of command.

I did call him a traitor. And IMO he is. If it comes out that this information is being used improperly, I will rethink my opinion of him. Until then, he is a traitor.

 

It doesn't matter if this information is being used improperly. Its collecting data, phone records, email records, chats, credit card purchases, debit card purchases, internet searches, etc on millions of innocent Americans by a third party without obtaining a proper search warrant for each and every person.

 

This is what the Democrats were warning us about when Bush brought up the "Patriot" Act. They were right.

 

If you don't think they're misusing information and abusing their power even after the fact Clapper, the Director of National Intelligence, lied to Congress and the American people when Ron Wyden (D -OR) asked him if they were obtaining this type of information, I doubt you'll change your mind about him.

 

On top of that we know the IRS knew of the attacks on conservative groups a few years ago but its officials did nothing while spending millions of dollars on parody videos of star trek and costly parties. All because they preached limited government and low taxes? They did it through keywords in their names like "tea party" or "patriot." The program the NSA uses known as PRSIM does the exact same thing. It reads data analytics all day long. You just tell it what to look for and it targets. And here is the company that has a program called PRISM and is contracted out by the CIA

 

And on top of that we know the Attorney General has been....misleading..... to say the least about wiretapping journalists. We now know he even vetted and signed off the search warrants to wiretap. From AP to the Fox Reporter. I don't care your politics, that is an abrasive abuse of power and there needs to be accountability.

 

They have constantly defended this weird and obnoxious desire for information.

 

This Administration and the government its running is going amok.

Edited June 15, 201313 yr by marvel

But that bad thing is, this is too much information, as I have heard it said "it is hard to find a needle in a haystack, and with this haystack being so huge with all this garbage information from everyone that is useless, it's harder to find those needles we need to find."

It is now under the PRC, and you can't go anywhere in HK without tripping over their agents, heck, there are more PRC agents in HK than the US had in Moscow and the USSR had in DC/NYC combined at any time during the cold war.

 

Tried in court or held by China and "thoroughly" questioned by the PRC? Not sure there is a smart move here, as we still may not hear a peep from him, at least as a free man. He at least acts like he knows everything. The PRC knows that we spy on them, as we know they spy on us. But he may know which channels of bugging/spying is working, he may know which people and phone lines successfully are being traced. But as I said, there are several other countries that he could have gone to.

 

But the proper channels that Habib asked, going to a few congressmen is one option, if he didn't want to go up the chain of command.

 

The dude is a supporter and donor to that kooky old man Ron Paul....You know, the one who predicted this during the passage of the Patriot Act, NDDA, FISA, Intelligence Authorization Act and so on.

 

He believes in liberty and government transparency. To a Ron Paul supporter, infringing on the right to privacy is a big no-no. He didn't go over there to give them all this dirt on the US because he hates our government. He did it to expose it so maybe more people wouldn't be a bunch of mouth breathing neanderthals not knowing what in the world their government is doing.

 

Maybe he got sick and tired of watching our "leaders" lie to Congress.

 

The guy isn't an idiot and I'm sure he has thought it out to some extent. Good lord. He has his GED. He's 29 and he's worked for the CIA and NSA as a computer whiz. The guy has his wits.

 

And like Habib said, he went outside the system to make it known. I think it worked.

^ Then he should have made a call to the other Mr. Paul. :thumb:

But that bad thing is, this is too much information, as I have heard it said "it is hard to find a needle in a haystack, and with this haystack being so huge with all this garbage information from everyone that is useless, it's harder to find those needles we need to find."

 

Needles like the Boston Marathon bombers who regularly communicated overseas, or Major Hussein of Fort Hood who regular communicated overseas.

 

The NSA used to capture and analyze every electronic transmission crossing the borders. I know people who do secure financial transactions for the equine industry and they get called into court periodically because their encryption is 'too good'.

 

Needles like the Boston Marathon bombers who regularly communicated overseas, or Major Hussein of Fort Hood who regular communicated overseas.

And the underwear bomber who's own father tried to warn us.

Anyone see any comparisons to this and "The Falcon and the Snowman?"

 

Christopher John Boyce - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyone see any comparisons to this and "The Falcon and the Snowman?"

 

Christopher John Boyce - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What Comparison Are You Making?

My guess is the vast majority of the people who call Snowden a patriot are liberals. John Boehner called him a traitor.

As marvel pointed out, Feinstein agreed and called it an act of treason.

 

“I don’t look at this as being a whistle-blower,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calf.) said. “I think it’s an act of treason.”

 

“He took an oath — that oath is important,” she said. “He violated the oath, he violated the law. It’s an act of treason in my view.”

 

She should review the oath she took IMO.

As marvel pointed out, Feinstein agreed and called it an act of treason.

 

“I don’t look at this as being a whistle-blower,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calf.) said. “I think it’s an act of treason.”

 

“He took an oath — that oath is important,” she said. “He violated the oath, he violated the law. It’s an act of treason in my view.”

 

She should review the oath she took IMO.

 

I saw that. Makes it a very interesting debate. When you get Boehner and Feinstein agreeing on anything it should make people think.