I don't hate the government. I believe our government's main purpose is to live by the restraints that are set in our Constitution. Its number one priority is to protect the natural rights that are given to us by our creator. Today it works as if it endows us with those rights. So yes, I despise any government and the officials that run it who think as such. Its legal plunder.

 

And the fathead....c'mon. If you're gonna mock me, at least be original.

 

 

 

You also weren't alive...that is why its a hypothetical. The point being is you would of done the right thing. During that time the government allowed one person to hold the property and privacy rights of a people. Only it was their physical self. In this case it is the digital property of an individual.

 

 

 

 

What bomb did he drop? He just proved everyones suspicion.

 

And Clapper wasn't the only thing to make Snowden do this. Listen to Glenn Greenwald. He can provide some good insight.

 

If you don't want to have a positive viewpoint on Snowden, don't. But I think it would better serve the country and the people to instead call for Clapper to be fired. Set the precedent that if you lie straight to the American people under oath, there is no place for you in our government, the entity that dictates policy.

 

Can anyone on this board, without going to google, actually tell Commando or myself what Snowden released? How did he harm national security?

I don't really have a view point of him at right now one way or the other. And I absolutely think Clapper should be fired and charged with a crime. And I don't think what he did harmed national security.

If you hired every recent college and high school graduate in the last five years, you would not have enough people to spy on everyone in the US, if you think likewise you buy into government paranoia way too much. Yes, we do have little privacy in some regards, but giving up that privacy makes it easier to defuse situations before they occur or quickly track those who are responsible. If you were without internet and without cell phones, the government would have a much harder time tracking you, but buying into those luxuries come with a price of losing privacy, at the end of the day you decide on how bad you want to fly under the radar.

If you hired every recent college and high school graduate in the last five years, you would not have enough people to spy on everyone in the US, if you think likewise you buy into government paranoia way too much. Yes, we do have little privacy in some regards, but giving up that privacy makes it easier to defuse situations before they occur or quickly track those who are responsible. If you were without internet and without cell phones, the government would have a much harder time tracking you, but buying into those luxuries come with a price of losing privacy, at the end of the day you decide on how bad you want to fly under the radar.

 

You are correct that it would be nearly impossible to monitor every single person and every little thing they do. However, it is not impossible to collect and store the data -- which we now know they do.

 

They have the power to sift through the data on roughly every American and can look back on every thing you've bought, said over the phone, typed into your computer, etc. If they do this without probable cause and a search warrant, it is not constitutional and is a perversion of the law.

 

With technology growing, of course there are some privacy concerns. That is why Ron Wyden asked the Director of National Intelligence if they were keeping/storing the data on innocent Americans. From credit card purchases to search history to FB chats. Clapper lied.

 

You should never have to give up your personal information unless the government has probable cause. Then they must go through the proper chanels and get a search warrant. That principle doesn't change no matter what technology is invented.

 

Its the same as if mail was just invented. You would think it ridiculous if they were allowed to open your mailbox, see who sent you what and from where, open it, read the letter, scan it, fold it back up and put it in your mailbox.

 

Every individual should have the right to voluntarily exchange their goods and services and use what they buy without their natural rights being infringed upon by a third party. That includes government, internet and cell phones companies.

 

If a company is abusing its power by handing over my private information, I should have some say. I should be allowed to sue. But under current law, I cannot. There is no legal recourse option available because the government has gave those companies immunity.

 

At the end of the day, you get to decide what you allow your government to see and collect on you. You can either be submissive about it, or tell them your property is indeed your property and they have no right to it.

I am all for balancing privacy with security.

 

We already have a document that does just that.

You are correct that it would be nearly impossible to monitor every single person and every little thing they do. However, it is not impossible to collect and store the data -- which we now know they do.

They have the power to sift through the data on roughly every American and can look back on every thing you've bought, said over the phone, typed into your computer, etc. If they do this without probable cause and a search warrant, it is not constitutional and is a perversion of the law.

 

With technology growing, of course there are some privacy concerns. That is why Ron Wyden asked the Director of National Intelligence if they were keeping/storing the data on innocent Americans. From credit card purchases to search history to FB chats. Clapper lied.

 

You should never have to give up your personal information unless the government has probable cause. Then they must go through the proper chanels and get a search warrant. That principle doesn't change no matter what technology is invented.

 

Its the same as if mail was just invented. You would think it ridiculous if they were allowed to open your mailbox, see who sent you what and from where, open it, read the letter, scan it, fold it back up and put it in your mailbox.

 

Every individual should have the right to voluntarily exchange their goods and services and use what they buy without their natural rights being infringed upon by a third party. That includes government, internet and cell phones companies.

 

If a company is abusing its power by handing over my private information, I should have some say. I should be allowed to sue. But under current law, I cannot. There is no legal recourse option available because the government has gave those companies immunity.

 

At the end of the day, you get to decide what you allow your government to see and collect on you. You can either be submissive about it, or tell them your property is indeed your property and they have no right to it.

 

IMO, they do not have the man-power to do that.

You are correct that it would be nearly impossible to monitor every single person and every little thing they do. However, it is not impossible to collect and store the data -- which we now know they do.

 

They have the power to sift through the data on roughly every American and can look back on every thing you've bought, said over the phone, typed into your computer, etc. If they do this without probable cause and a search warrant, it is not constitutional and is a perversion of the law.

 

With technology growing, of course there are some privacy concerns. That is why Ron Wyden asked the Director of National Intelligence if they were keeping/storing the data on innocent Americans. From credit card purchases to search history to FB chats. Clapper lied.

 

You should never have to give up your personal information unless the government has probable cause. Then they must go through the proper chanels and get a search warrant. That principle doesn't change no matter what technology is invented.

 

Its the same as if mail was just invented. You would think it ridiculous if they were allowed to open your mailbox, see who sent you what and from where, open it, read the letter, scan it, fold it back up and put it in your mailbox.

 

Every individual should have the right to voluntarily exchange their goods and services and use what they buy without their natural rights being infringed upon by a third party. That includes government, internet and cell phones companies.

 

If a company is abusing its power by handing over my private information, I should have some say. I should be allowed to sue. But under current law, I cannot. There is no legal recourse option available because the government has gave those companies immunity.

 

At the end of the day, you get to decide what you allow your government to see and collect on you. You can either be submissive about it, or tell them your property is indeed your property and they have no right to it.

 

I do get all of that. I really do. I guess I am not a huge fan of whistleblowers.

 

I've mentioned it in other threads that I have always felt like the government has the power to do exactly what Snowden says they are doing and I am fine with that. Mainly because I don't have anything to hide and if they want to read the dumb text mesages between my and my wife/friends/family then I am okay with that. I'm glad the government has the capability to do so because I don't see them using this technology just for kicks and giggles. I'm okay with it and like Big Black Jack said, once I buy these luxuries my privacy as it risk as soon as I activate it. Maybe traitor is a little too harsh and unproven at this point but at the very least he is being self serving and self righteous. What does he really think is going to happen? Is Obama going to run up in NSA and make them turn off their equipment? No. Nothing is going to happen and he'll disappear one day for running his mouth. Why not just quit and go work somewhere else?

IMO, they do not have the man-power to do that.

 

It's not man power as much as software and hardware.

 

Behold the NSA?s Dark Star: the Utah Data Center - The Daily Beast

 

But it’s obviously been built to vastly increase the agency’s capacity to suck in, digest, analyze, and store whatever the intelligence community decides to collect. As of this week, we know a lot more about the kind of data that includes.

 

Welcome to Utah, the NSA's desert home for eavesdropping on America | World news | guardian.co.uk

 

Outside experts disagreed on the centre's potential. Some said it will just store data. Others envisaged a capacity to not just store but analyse and break codes, enabling technicians here to potentially snoop on the entire population for decades to come.

 

The NSA's metastasised intelligence-industrial complex is ripe for abuse | Valerie Plame Wilson and Joe Wilson | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

 

This isn't including the vast amounts of data they receive form the worlds largest internet and phone providers:

 

NSA Prism program taps in to user data of Apple, Google and others | World news | The Guardian

 

They give the government data. Some may give the data monthly, some may do it weekly. But they do get it.

So now Snowden is saying he sought a job at Booz Allen Hamilton to gather evidence against the NSA.

 

 

Patriot or traitor?

 

 

Edward Snowden Says He Sought Booz Allen Hamilton Job To Gather NSA Surveillance Evidence

Mitch McConnell said Snowden was a traitor today at my plant.

 

I agree with him.

 

 

Senator McConnell also said that the NSA is not listening to any of the information that is gathered UNLESS you are communicating with a known terrorist. Even if you are communicating with a known terrorist they still have to go to FISA which is a special court in order to get a warrant to listen in to the conversation. He said that they have stopped at least 50 attacks on American interests due to information gathered from the NSA and with clearance from FISA. He also made the point that none of our phone calls are private and that there is nothing wrong with seeing who people are talking to. The problem is when people are listening to them without proper clearance and that no one is listening if you aren't talking to terrorists.

And of course everyone is supposed believe that....

And of course everyone is supposed believe that....

 

I'm just the messenger. I'm a Democrat and he's the Senate Majority Leader who vowed to make sure that my beloved Obama would only last one term. You can believe what you want. I'll continue to believe what I want.

Sorry PP92... My snide comment wasn't directed at you. I should have stated my point. Being that Snowden and some previous whistle blowers have confirmed that private individuals have been targeted that had nothing to do with terrorism... Mitch was only being partially truthful... They don't listen to every phone call,etc.. But when they want to target a person for whatever reason, they have and do..

Sorry PP92... My snide comment wasn't directed at you. I should have stated my point. Being that Snowden and some previous whistle blowers have confirmed that private individuals have been targeted that had nothing to do with terrorism... Mitch was only being partially truthful... They don't listen to every phone call,etc.. But when they want to target a person for whatever reason, they have and do..

 

Agreed.

 

I did come away impressed with Senator McConnell. He was more personable than I expected.

Mitch McConnell I agree with him

 

Soooo, who's the traitor now?

 

*Disclaimer: this quote may or may not have been edited for your viewing pleasure.

Clapper apologizes: Clapper apologizes for 'erroneous' answer on NSA