Is there any difference if the bumper sticker would say, "U Can't B Both NRA and a gun control activist?"

 

Just because one lives in a garage, it doesn't make them a car!

 

Just because somebody shows up now and then for Mass on Sunday (when convenient) and/or treats Catholic beliefs/God's Word like a buffet line at Golden Corral, it does not mean that they are living the Catholic faith. Valuing life from conception until natural death is one of the biggies. Just a bit of a personal testimony so that I don't appear hypocritical or "preachy". For many years, I was against abortion and for capital punishment. Recently, I was convicted that my beliefs did not consistently line up like they should. I am still changing and growing in my faith. That's the best definition of being Catholic that I have. I think the point of the bumper sticker is that if you are flaunting your pro-choice stance, you really should not call yourself a practicing Catholic.

 

Are you saying you weren't a practicing Catholic?

I'm Catholic and personally Pro-Life. That doesn't however mean I support politicians' quest to legislate abortion or tell people what they can and can't do with their own bodies.

I'm Catholic and personally Pro-Life. That doesn't however mean I support politicians' quest to legislate abortion or tell people what they can and can't do with their own bodies.

 

Technically wouldn't that mean you are pro-choice? Pro-choice doesn't mean you are necessarily pro-abortion,

it just means you are against the government outlawing abortion. There can be a fine line between pro-choice

and pro-abortion but I do think there can be a line.

We believe life begins at conception. We believe that nothing should be done to prevent conception, except abstinance or NFP. So, yes, it's true.

RM, I don't think being pro-life automatically makes one against unnatural birth control. I know the church often draws parallels between the two to show a relationship between the two but I would say that bumper sticker is addressing abortion only.

I'm sorry I think the line of I am personally against abortion but don't want to tell others what to do, is a ridiculous agrument and one embraced by politicians trying to play both sides and not take a real stand.

 

If you truly believe the church teachings, that would be paramount to saying you were against child abuse, but don't want to push your beliefs on others so you would allow it if they felt it was right.

 

If you don't believe as the Church teaches that life starts at Conception, then I can understand people being Pro-choice. If you believe that "human life" starts sometime later ...perhaps the end of the first Tri-mester. I can understand people allowing for 1st trimester abortions.

 

What makes no sense to me are those who believe that at whatever stage the baby in the womb is a viable human life, and yet still support/allow others to choose if abortion is ok.

 

Again to answer the question posed : yes it is true.

 

Many like "calling" themselves Catholics or even Christians but then do very little to live a life that reflects it.

Technically wouldn't that mean you are pro-choice?

 

Not at all. I'm pro-life. If I were ever in the situation, I'd do everything in my power to make sure the woman had the baby. I don't believe I should try to force my morals and values on others who may not share my beliefs through laws and government. I'm pro-life, but my political beliefs say that people should be entrusted to make their own decisions on both financial and social issues and have the personal responsibility to deal with the consequences of those decisions.

 

Basically it boils down to I think it's incredibly wrong to try and legislate one's morals and religious beliefs.

Not at all. I'm pro-life. If I were ever in the situation, I'd do everything in my power to make sure the woman had the baby. I don't believe I should try to force my morals and values on others who may not share my beliefs through laws and government. I'm pro-life, but my political beliefs say that people should be entrusted to make their own decisions on both financial and social issues and have the personal responsibility to deal with the consequences of those decisions.

 

Basically it boils down to I think it's incredibly wrong to try and legislate one's morals and religious beliefs.

 

I think here is just a case where we look at the definition of what it means to be Pro-Life and Pro-Choice as a little different. I look at Pro-Life as being one seeing abortion as similar (or the same) as murder and therefore should be illegal. I look at Pro-Choice as being you may or may not fine abortion morally offensive but you don't want governments to be able to legislate it.

 

During the elections, Joe Biden I believe explained that while his is morally against abortion and would try to talk any woman he encountered considering an abortion to not choice abortion, he did not feel it was right to push his values on others and therefore he felt the choice should stay with the mother and therefore is Pro-Choice. While on the surface I can see where many hold this view that it is not right to legislate morals, but I would argue that if you go deeper than the surface you will see that numerous laws we have were based upon morals. An earlier poster mentioned child abuse which is a good example. What gives the government the right to tell a father that he does not have the right to raise his hand to his wife and kids in order to maintain an orderly home? Just because I may find it morally wrong to do so, is it right for me to intrude into the household of others and impede my will? As a nation we have said yes, that spousal and child abuse are morally wrong and that laws can be made justifiably to protect spouses and children. In the same way, I believe it is justifiable for the government to outlaw abortion for the protection of the child in the womb from the ultimate child abuse.

^1) Because that infringes on another's well-being, and while you and I may agree that abortion does as well, it's not something that is factual.

 

And you're absolutely right, a lot of laws are based on morality, and I don't agree with those either. The illegality of drugs is the big one that comes to mind.

Are you saying you weren't a practicing Catholic?

 

Well, I make every attempt to be one. I have been Catholic all my life. It is a work in process. In the example I gave, I realized that my personal belief about capital punishment did not agree with the Church's teaching. Once I knew that, I needed to change my view. In the Catholic Church, beliefs like these are known as "Sacred Tradition" - given by Jesus himself to the apostles and handed down to their successors. They become the doctrine and moral teachings of the Church. Once I know something is wrong and do/believe differently, Christians (not just Catholics) think that is sin. I think the bumper sticker is saying that if a Catholic is consciously and deliberately unaligned with the Church's teaching on Life, maybe they really aren't what they say they are.

I'd like it to be. Although I consider myself catholic and I am pro death penalty.

 

I would never tell someone that they aren't what they say they are. If you consider yourself Catholic, you're Catholic.

^1) Because that infringes on another's well-being, and while you and I may agree that abortion does as well, it's not something that is factual..

 

I don't know about that, I think even the president of the National Organization of Women would admit that abortion does infringe on the fetus but she would argue that the fetus's life is not as valuable as that of a born individual or that the woman's choice to do what she chooses with her body is more important than the life of the fetus. I often think the abortion debate comes down to how society measures the value of the life inside the mother versus the value of the mother having the choice to do what she chooses with her body. My opinion is that while I respect the fact that the woman has rights over her body, those rights should not go as far as doings something that destroys a life inside of her.

 

And you're absolutely right, a lot of laws are based on morality, and I don't agree with those either. The illegality of drugs is the big one that comes to mind.

 

I would argue that laws passed decades ago outlawing child and spousal abuse were based on the immorality of those actions. I would assume you don't have a problem with abuse laws?

 

Are drugs illegal because of morality or more so because of the belief that drug use harms overall public good? My guess is that they are more so for the second reason than morality.

Common definitions:

 

Pro-Life: Advocating the legal protection of human embyos and fetuses, especially by favoring the outlawing of abortion on the ground that it is the taking of a human life.

 

Pro-Choice: An ideological position which defends a woman's right to have an abortion on the grounds of her inviolable autonomy over matters concerning her own body. In the United States, where the issue has become most politicized, the landmark Roe v. Wade decision of the Supreme Court 1973 grounded a woman's right to have an abortion in an inferred constitutional ‘right to privacy’.

I'm Catholic and personally Pro-Life. That doesn't however mean I support politicians' quest to legislate abortion or tell people what they can and can't do with their own bodies.

 

I absolutely get appalled with this idea. Murder is murder. You should not have control to end a life except in self defense situations. I'm not telling you want to do with your body that's so erroneous . I'm telling you that you can't control the life of another body that is defenseless.

Not at all. I'm pro-life. If I were ever in the situation, I'd do everything in my power to make sure the woman had the baby. I don't believe I should try to force my morals and values on others who may not share my beliefs through laws and government. I'm pro-life, but my political beliefs say that people should be entrusted to make their own decisions on both financial and social issues and have the personal responsibility to deal with the consequences of those decisions.

 

Basically it boils down to I think it's incredibly wrong to try and legislate one's morals and religious beliefs.

What does murder have to do with religion? You are either for preventing the taking of innocent life or you aren't. I am far from a religious person but I think protecting innocent life should be society as a whole job and standard. Otherwise we are just picking and choosing what murders we accept.

I absolutely get appalled with this idea. Murder is murder. You should not have control to end a life except in self defense situations. I'm not telling you want to do with your body that's so erroneous . I'm telling you that you can't control the life of another body that is defenseless.

 

Except for the fact that there's no proof that it's another life. That's the whole point. While my faith thinks it is a life, and I think it's a life, laws are based on facts and proof. That's the way our legal system works. Until their is proof that an unborn fetus is a life (which I think it is), you can't claim it as murder, not legally anyways.

 

I understand some aren't able to separate "church" & "state", but I am. I will never let my religious beliefs cloud my judgement or views on political and legal issues. It's disgusting that people think they should be able to legislate their morality, but people who believe differently should have to follow their religious rules.