BROSSART 5-13-11-12—41

at H.CROSS

8-13-10-24—55

BROSSART (12-3): Uebel 3 1 8, Jennings 1 1 3, Rieger 2 0 6, Saunders 2 0 4, Trentman 4 0 8, Hackworth 1 0 2, Burns 3 4 10. Totals 15 6 41.

HOLY CROSS (9-6): Pouncy 1 4 6, Tiberi 0 2 2, Gabbard 3 1 8, M. McClendon 2 2 7, Knochelmann 1 4 6, C. McClendon 3 0 6, Campbell 7 4 20. Totals 17 17 55.

3-pointers: HC—Campbell 2, C. McClendon, Gabbard. B—Rieger 2, Uebel. JV: Brossart won.

 

 

 

Read more: 1/8 BBK: Holmes takes down CovCath

I am watching the replay now. Easy and correct call by Kim Webb on the player control foul. Markel was going full speed. No flop.

 

Like i said before was talking about mosting the Campbell fouls anybody that didnt like that Markels play wasnt a charge is a fool.

Let's talk officiating. Mustang said the female official needed to get off the court. I listened to the HC broadcast. They questioned a lot of calls.

 

I'm always of the belief that fans overreact to officiating because of emotion and lack of rule knowledge. That's not being critical of fans. The rulebook has to be studied to fully know when an official is correct and when they're not.

 

Fortunately HC (and God bless them for b-ball fans like me) did a video broadcast so we can all go back and see "how bad" they were.

 

Mustang is way off base on Kim Webb's performance. I would challenge him to go back and watch the video to point out all of the mistakes she made. My guess is what got him going was foul #3 on Drew Burns in the first half. He was behind AC in the post and Kim got him for a hold. Hard to tell because they weren't fully in the video. She was right there watching both and signaled that Drew grabbed AC. I'll give the benefit of the doubt to Kim on that one. EVEN if we say she was grossly inaccurate on that call Mustang is still way off in his criticism.

 

I thought Kim had one rough call and that was the 4th foul on AC. He was blocking out away from the basket and she got him for a push. I thought the Brossart kid slipped. She didn't .

 

Other than that I've got no criticism of her calls.

 

The 3rd foul early 2nd half on AC was the worst call of the night IMO.

 

The 5-second call late in the game was correct as you can switch off as long as the 6-foot limit is not broken.

 

HC thought Drew Burns walked when he fell on a throw-in. It was legal as he fell to the ground BEFORE catching the ball. No travel.

 

Christian's 2nd foul late in the game on a shot attempt was a foul. He "got all ball" but he whacked the shooter across the head.

 

I thought a foul should have been called on a BB drive to the basket late first half. (Note: Not Kim's call)

 

HC wanted a 5-second call in the 2nd half. Watch the replay. Official was on "3" of his count when he passed the ball.

 

Heck, HC thought AC got away with a foul in the 2nd half when a BB player made contact with AC's body. I've got nothing. AC was straight up and didn't move into the shooter. Play on.

 

There were missed calls. A 3-second call was missed first half. A few travel calls on the perimeter were missed.

 

Overall, it was a solid performance and Kim was the best of the 3.

 

I welcome any and all to watch HC's excellent video broadcast and tell me where you disagree.

 

Holy Cross High School

 

Agree with what you said about her i thought the short ref was the worst,

I know the type of talent Brossart has. Have been following this senior group since they were freshmen.

 

With that said, Newcath and Holy Cross are also VERY GOOD teams. The only way we see Brossart v Holy Cross/Newcath is if it's in the state championship, as they are on opposite sides of the bracket.

 

If I'm not mistaken, their senior group is only two (Uebel and J. Saunders)

Darn, I was going to take a nap, and then I read Clyde's dissertation and forewent the nap, and visited the HC broadcast replay (which they did a nice job on) to see what it was I missed.

 

First of all, AGAIN, we lost because we weren't very good last night. My only negative comments about the officiating referenced the first half.

On our Brossart Broadcast my first negative comment on the officials came at the 2:02:47 mark. My first reference to the incompetence of the young lady (who I didn't mention by name - Clyde did) came at the 2:07 mark, and then I vented on her/them at the 2:09:40 mark. In the second half I realized that officiating wasn't our problem and that we would abide by whatever they thought they saw. They were bad both ways.

 

The other thing Clyde fails to point out is that HC lost the broadcast from the 5 minute mark in the 2nd quarter to the 30 second mark of the 2nd quarter - the period where I was most critical of Miss Webb. My major objection was that she/they were penalizing good defensive play and rewarding others for getting their pocket picked or in Burns'/Uebel instance - calling phantom fouls (2 on Burns and 1 on Uebel).

 

After watching the replay where was the foul at the 28:05 mark??? Against #10 Uebel - No Contact - Phantom Foul. No rhyme and no reason.

 

Let's discuss the absudity of Burns second foul at the 22:00 mark, clearly fronting Campbell, and clearly no contact, yet Burns picks up a foul - for what??? The HC announcers called it a "Cheepie."

 

Next, there is no defense for the "holding" call against Burns (his third) from behind Tony Campbell. Even the HC announcers said "That's not a foul." No ifs, ands, or buts - NO FOUL You can judge for yourself at the 32.20 mark of the broadcast.

 

I feel I have a well deserved reputation for being objective on our broadcasts. I am critical of our Mustangs play when warrented, and complimentary of our opponents when deserved. RARELY, if ever do I berate or talk negatively about officials on our broadcasts - That's my partner, Frank Neimeyer's assignment - lol (who was out of town and not on the broadcast last night - Thank God!.) Last night though I was driven over the edge. I also stated in my diatribe that maybe I was just like Will Rogers and never met a female official working a boys varsity game that I liked - my personal non-politically correct opinion. (I thought Jenny Myrtle was tolerable, and the lady from Ashland - 16th region is very good.)

 

So again, I thank Clyde for rendering the final judgement that I am out of order (a popular theme of his) and that we have all been set straight on the matter. Let's move on.

Agree with what you said about her i thought the short ref was the worst,

 

Can we get a poll???

Like I always say, if you think you can do better then pick up a whistle.

Only one of the officials was horrific and she would have done both teams a favor by checking herself out of the game and letting the other two, who had some concept of who to reward and who to penalize, call the game. How her multiple choice officiating tendencies have allowed her to get varsity boys games is a mystery. Not a good sign when both teams/head coaches are upset with you.

 

 

My only negative comments about the officiating referenced the first half.

 

On our Brossart Broadcast my first negative comment on the officials came at the 2:02:47 mark. My first reference to the incompetence of the young lady (who I didn't mention by name - Clyde did) came at the 2:07 mark, and then I vented on her/them at the 2:09:40 mark. In the second half I realized that officiating wasn't our problem and that we would abide by whatever they thought they saw. They were bad both ways.

 

The other thing Clyde fails to point out is that HC lost the broadcast from the 5 minute mark in the 2nd quarter to the 30 second mark of the 2nd quarter - the period where I was most critical of Miss Webb. My major objection was that she/they were penalizing good defensive play and rewarding others for getting their pocket picked or in Burns'/Uebel instance - calling phantom fouls (2 on Burns and 1 on Uebel).

 

After watching the replay where was the foul at the 28:05 mark??? Against #10 Uebel - No Contact - Phantom Foul. No rhyme and no reason.

 

Let's discuss the absudity of Burns second foul at the 22:00 mark, clearly fronting Campbell, and clearly no contact, yet Burns picks up a foul - for what??? The HC announcers called it a "Cheepie."

 

Next, there is no defense for the "holding" call against Burns (his third) from behind Tony Campbell. Even the HC announcers said "That's not a foul." No ifs, ands, or buts - NO FOUL You can judge for yourself at the 32.20 mark of the broadcast.

 

I feel I have a well deserved reputation for being objective on our broadcasts. I am critical of our Mustangs play when warrented, and complimentary of our opponents when deserved. RARELY, if ever do I berate or talk negatively about officials on our broadcasts - That's my partner, Frank Neimeyer's assignment - lol (who was out of town and not on the broadcast last night - Thank God!.) Last night though I was driven over the edge. I also stated in my diatribe that maybe I was just like Will Rogers and never met a female official working a boys varsity game that I liked - my personal non-politically correct opinion. (I thought Jenny Myrtle was tolerable, and the lady from Ashland - 16th region is very good.)

 

So again, I thank Clyde for rendering the final judgement that I am out of order (a popular theme of his) and that we have all been set straight on the matter. Let's move on.

 

 

First, Mustang, no one is above reproach on here. You impuned the the reputation of the lone female official and said the other two knew what they were doing. That's a serious charge against an official especially from someone who is not an official.

 

I then watch the entire game and point out that MAYBE the 3rd foul on Drew was a bad call. MAYBE. The video shows contact by Drew from behind despite your declaration that it was obviously not a foul. Regardless, I can see where you thought her call was bad.

 

YOU then reply with two other plays and point out the time on the film where I can go see for myself. Lo and behold who is making the calls that you hated? Not the female. Both calls were by the same official - one of the two you said knew what they were doing and who should have done the game without the female's assistance.

 

THAT is the problem and that's why you're fair game and my criticism is 100% valid.

 

You conflated all of the bad calls with criticism of the female official when you had a problem with ONE of them.

 

Kim Webb called a nice game.

This is a perfect example of fans overstating how bad officials are.

 

Officials make mistakes every game. They know it more than anyone. However, it's NEVER as bad as fans think.

 

Officials expect to be criticized. Most get it. Most can handle it because they know a)they make mistakes and b)fans always exaggerate the mistakes.

^^OK, my last post on the subject, then you can have the last word.

 

To LAWildcat - I spent over 30 years of my life working for the Queen City Umpires Association, and have officiated basketball, but not as a certified official, ONLY because I was coaching either freshmen boys for 12 years, or Girls Varsity for 5 years SO to some degree I know of what I speak. High school basketball officials are paid professionals. We all know some are better than others, and some understand the game and what their job is better than others. However, I feel that in order to be doing high school varsity games you should be somewhat accountable to call a game in a manner consistent with the INTENT of the rules, and give the players your best effort at a consistenly called game.

 

To Clyde - I certainly am not above reproach. You are the guy who defended the officials callling of the plays cited. My defamation of Miss Webb did not come until very late in the second quarter, a period in which the Holy Cross broadcast was dark. Mistakes are mistakes, we all make them. Misinterpreting what is a foul and who violates whom, and having a grasp on what should and should not be called while being fair and impartial, is a whole other matter. Blowing the whistle randomly (Multiple choice officiating) with the player charged actually not responsible for a violation and now not understanding just what the rules are on that given night, is again a whole other matter. I don't claim to be right all of the time, as some others on here, and I am certainly not into speaking in generalities. In this case I called out Miss Webb (without using her name). While her partners may have been bad, it was she specifically who invoked my ire, and is not to be misconstrued as an "overstatement" of her incompetence.

^^OK, my last post on the subject, then you can have the last word.

 

To LAWildcat - I spent over 30 years of my life working for the Queen City Umpires Association, and have officiated basketball, but not as a certified official, ONLY because I was coaching either freshmen boys for 12 years, or Girls Varsity for 5 years SO to some degree I know of what I speak. High school basketball officials are paid professionals. We all know some are better than others, and some understand the game and what their job is better than others. However, I feel that in order to be doing high school varsity games you should be somewhat accountable to call a game in a manner consistent with the INTENT of the rules, and give the players your best effort at a consistenly called game.

 

To Clyde - I certainly am not above reproach. You are the guy who defended the officials callling of the plays cited. My defamation of Miss Webb did not come until very late in the second quarter, a period in which the Holy Cross broadcast was dark. Mistakes are mistakes, we all make them. Misinterpreting what is a foul and who violates whom, and having a grasp on what should and should not be called while being fair and impartial, is a whole other matter. Blowing the whistle randomly (Multiple choice officiating) with the player charged actually not responsible for a violation and now not understanding just what the rules are on that given night, is again a whole other matter. I don't claim to be right all of the time, as some others on here, and I am certainly not into speaking in generalities. In this case I called out Miss Webb (without using her name). While her partners may have been bad, it was she specifically who invoked my ire, and is not to be misconstrued as an "overstatement" of her incompetence.

 

You called out one official. She was the best of the crew. Your examples even prove that. Notice I didn't defend two of the three you referenced.

 

It's not a problem to say you watch it as a Brossart fan. Terry watched it as a Holy Cross fan and made mistakes on calls he thought were incorrect. It happens every game to almost everyone. Just don't single out one person and then give bad examples.

 

If you thought those two were as bad as you seemed to indicate call out Mr Hart. He made the calls. He's a big boy. He can take it. Matt Finke can as well.

My comment was not directed specifically at you, Mustang; just a general comment to those who like to complain about officials when most don't know the first thing about the rules. Thank you for your resume' however, I would contend that with all that experience, you are still looking at these games through emerald colored glasses.

My comment was not directed specifically at you, Mustang; just a general comment to those who like to complain about officials when most don't know the first thing about the rules. Thank you for your resume' however, I would contend that with all that experience, you are still looking at these games through emerald colored glasses.

 

For a moment there I thought I was reading a Highlands basketball thread..

I watched a little bit of this clip and looked to me like very first call of game set the tone. The and one by the HC player, when i slowed it down and paused it - it appears the Brossart player was in position for the rebound and the HC player came in over the top. In any event - its always tough for the 9th to go into the 10th and vice versa. A large gap in how the games are officiated. Not saying one is right over the other or one should be officiated one way over the other - but you can certainly tell the differences in the way these regions are officiated.

Did the foul on Burns have any effect on the play? Were they throwing the ball inside when she called the hold?

Don't call the 3rd foul if it has no effect on the play! If it had any bearing on the play.... foul is a foul!

Did the foul on Burns have any effect on the play? Were they throwing the ball inside when she called the hold?

Don't call the 3rd foul if it has no effect on the play! If it had any bearing on the play.... foul is a foul!

 

Memory says it was on a pass to the post.