Interesting stuff from The Economist, as always. As attendance at Mass, participation in the sacraments and involvement in parish communities continue to drop across the Western world, one part of the Catholic Church is experiencing remarkable growth: the Traditional Latin Mass.

 

Article: The Catholic Church's Traditionalist Avant-Garde

 

As someone who has been attending Latin Mass (though sporadically) for several years, the writer's ultimate question is intriguing: "Is it merely an outcrop of eccentricity, or a sign that the Church took a wrong turn 50 years ago?" The question definitely goes to far, but the growth in the number of traditional masses across Christendom while the number of masses overall continues to decline is an interesting trend.

Interesting stuff from The Economist, as always. As attendance at Mass, participation in the sacraments and involvement in parish communities continue to drop across the Western world, one part of the Catholic Church is experiencing remarkable growth: the Traditional Latin Mass.

 

Article: The Catholic Church's Traditionalist Avant-Garde

 

As someone who has been attending Latin Mass (though sporadically) for several years, the writer's ultimate question is intriguing: "Is it merely an outcrop of eccentricity, or a sign that the Church took a wrong turn 50 years ago?" The question definitely goes to far, but the growth in the number of traditional masses across Christendom while the number of masses overall continues to decline is an interesting trend.

 

After Vatican II in the 70's and 80's I think Catholic laity swung WAAAAAAAAY to the left which is odd because Vatican II really is not a liberal council, but liberals in the church really took advantage of the council and ran with it as long as they could. I think this discouraged some of the more traditional Catholics and caused some disinfranchisement for them. Now that the church seems to be coming back more to a middle ground, you are starting to see some of the traditional ways of worship coming back. My church (St. Martin of Tours in Louisville) has introduced me to several devotionals and other truly beautiful worship services which were brushed to the side after Vatican II by so many because they were seen as too old fashioned. It is nice that more churches are dusting off such practices which were never meant to be buried by Vatican II.

^ I think it was a pretty broad conglomeration of things that led to what, for the Church, was a pretty disastrous period in the 1970s and 80s. I think the "liberalization" (I'm not wild about that word here but it's close enough) of the laity was aided by the same attitude among numerous priests, brothers and sisters at the same time.

 

In the end, I think we can look at three problems the Church faced around the time of the Second Vatican Council/Liturgical Reforms of Pope Paul VI: an increasingly uninterested group of religious (How many priests, brothers and sisters left the church in those years?), a laity that increasingly demanded the Church change to fit their desires rather than the other way around, and both groups failing to teach the generations to come the fundamental and essential beliefs of the Church and demonstrate why they are important.

 

In the end, I think you are correct about some of the practices that were never meant to be swept away being brought back out of hiding. I can only hope that it's not to late to save what appears to me to be a Church that spent 40 years trying to devour itself and seems like it may have succeeded...

I think the "liberalization" (I'm not wild about that word here but it's close enough) of the laity was aided by the same attitude among numerous priests, brothers and sisters at the same time.

 

Good point.

 

In the end, I think we can look at three problems the Church faced around the time of the Second Vatican Council/Liturgical Reforms of Pope Paul VI: an increasingly uninterested group of religious (How many priests, brothers and sisters left the church in those years?),

 

In some cases, the priests, brothers and sisters who left their calling were due to what they felt was a liberalization of the church. A friend of mine's father was a Xavierian Brother (Flaget Grad) who when he saw what happened after Vatican II said to himself, "This is not what I signed up for" and took advantage of the opportunity to be dispensed from his vows. He later admitted he over reacted and things didn't turn out the way he assumed they were going to. But since he had already married, he obviously could not go back.

 

a laity that increasingly demanded the Church change to fit their desires rather than the other way around,

 

No arguement there.

 

and both groups failing to teach the generations to come the fundamental and essential beliefs of the Church and demonstrate why they are important.

 

Catholic schools really are not doing the best at teaching the faith. So few Catholics educated in Catholic school understand the major tennants of the faith.

 

In the end, I think you are correct about some of the practices that were never meant to be swept away being brought back out of hiding. I can only hope that it's not to late to save what appears to me to be a Church that spent 40 years trying to devour itself and seems like it may have succeeded...

 

I don't think it succeeded. I think for so long the church tried to accommodate everyone and in the end, started heading down a path for not standing for anything. Starting with JPII, the church has started to stand more firm on what it teaches and not apologizing for it. Benedict has continued this and I imagine whomever his successor is will do the same based upon the current make up of those who could succeed him.

They lost me last year when they made those changes! I will still go for some religious holidays and of course weddings and funerals, but not much more than that. I even took two friends who are not Catholic to church earlier this year and they were so confused as well, I told them about the changes and how it's now meant to have people "search for the meaning and their beliefs", they said it would only make them stay away as it made then feel stupid. They now attend one of those multi denominational churches, the ones that are growing like crazy, which the Catholic church is not.

 

I enjoy Latin Masses for Christmas and Easter, as well as Masses in German for Christmas, but for regular Masses I want the ones I grew up with.

They lost me last year when they made those changes!

 

 

I still go, but I am so glad to hear that someone else feels the same way I do. I think they ruined not only the Mass, but also the music. Even after the time that has passed, it still feels and sounds very awkward to me. What was the real point of this?

They lost me last year when they made those changes!

 

Those changes were pretty minor, that was enough to cause you to stop going to mass?

They lost me last year when they made those changes! I will still go for some religious holidays and of course weddings and funerals, but not much more than that. I even took two friends who are not Catholic to church earlier this year and they were so confused as well, I told them about the changes and how it's now meant to have people "search for the meaning and their beliefs", they said it would only make them stay away as it made then feel stupid. They now attend one of those multi denominational churches, the ones that are growing like crazy, which the Catholic church is not.

 

 

 

I enjoy Latin Masses for Christmas and Easter, as well as Masses in German for Christmas, but for regular Masses I want the ones I grew up with.

 

Do you stop showing up for work if the boss makes some changes at work that you don't like????? Change happens all the time whether we like it or not. I to was used to the Masses I grew up with, but the recent changes didn't make not want to attend. I would agree the Catholic church does a less than stellar job at some things, however some of the responsibility must be placed on the individual to seek the meaning and their beliefs. Please don't take this as a slam to your post.

Those changes were pretty minor, that was enough to cause you to stop going to mass?

 

Are we talking about the changes such as the Nicene Creed?

 

What changes in music did I miss?

I love the changes. I grew up with Father Wm. Pank as my parish priest. These changes bring the Mass more in line with what I grew up. I never felt the "modern" Mass was sufficiently "reverent", for lack of a better word. There is something so moving, so simply beautiful about the full Latin Mass. I am very glad that to see some of it returning to the Ordinary Mass.

I love the changes. I grew up with Father Wm. Pank as my parish priest. These changes bring the Mass more in line with what I grew up. I never felt the "modern" Mass was sufficiently "reverent", for lack of a better word. There is something so moving, so simply beautiful about the full Latin Mass. I am very glad that to see some of it returning to the Ordinary Mass.

 

 

I feel the same. At first the change was a little difficult to get the hang of but now I am really liking them. When I sat down and researched why the US Conf of Catholic Bishops made the changes and the meaning of the changes in wording, I really like them even if they don't roll off the tonque quite as easily as the words I grew up saying.

 

If you want to go the Latin Mass, come down to St. Martin's at noon (I think) on Sundays. While I prefer the venacular, every once in a while I like to experience the old Latin mass.

I still go, but I am so glad to hear that someone else feels the same way I do. I think they ruined not only the Mass, but also the music. Even after the time that has passed, it still feels and sounds very awkward to me. What was the real point of this?

 

I didn't feel like the changes were all that "major". How do you feel they ruin things?

If you want to go the Latin Mass, come down to St. Martin's at noon (I think) on Sundays. While I prefer the venacular, every once in a while I like to experience the old Latin mass.

 

Yep, noon. I get down to that mass about once per month. I like it a lot.

 

Still I typically go to the ordinary form at St. James most Sundays since it's my neighborhood parish.

Speaking of traditionalism...here's part of the outcome of the USCCB's thought to revisit the idea of regular Friday fasting and abstinence from meat (among other things): Year of Faith: Call To Prayer

 

The Readers Digest version...the United States Council of Catholic Bishops is asking (asking, not requiring) that all Catholics in the US attend monthly Eucharistic Holy Hours, pray a daily Rosary, add special prayers of the faithful at all masses, fast and abstain from meat on all Fridays, and observe a two week long "Fortnight for Freedom" starting June 2013 wherein parishes call for a change to the August 1st deadline for religious organizations to comply with the HHS mandate through organized prayer, study, catechesis, and peaceful public action.

I still go, but I am so glad to hear that someone else feels the same way I do. I think they ruined not only the Mass, but also the music. Even after the time that has passed, it still feels and sounds very awkward to me. What was the real point of this?

 

 

The music was ruined the moment the first Gather book entered our church along with the guitars, bongos, drums, bass guitars and tamborines. Shoot I can barely tolerate a piano when there is a perfectly good organ available.