I'm not wild about the timing. I'd like to see another year go by before something like this went into effect. Taking money out of people's pockets in troubled times usually serves to make those times worse. Based on what I've read and the anecdotal evidence from a few people I know in business seems to suggest that this year is at least somewhat better than last year, even if we still can't call this year "good." Slashing spending and taking money out of people's pockets could send us right back into the slump.

 

As usual, we do these things during times of trouble and not during times of plenty, which is usually when we need to address them. But everyone's too busy getting fat at the big trough during boom years to want to do any actual work with the underlying fiscal issues.

 

Personally, I'd like to see both the tax increases and spending cuts be MUCH smaller this year with increases to come, spelled out over a long-term plan to give some stability. Any bets on whether a nice, stable plan for sustained growth and a move toward fiscal responsibility gets worked out by Congress?

 

I think it would make way more sense to make structural changes that will have their greatest effect in the long term. It seems futile and potentially destructive to just slash spending across the board immediately and not address the larger problem.

That is fantasyland. Small business, the engine that drives a free market economy, has been struggling for 4 years, and I do not see anything positive on the horizon. The so-called experts, including our President, have been telling us for 4 years that things will improve, then act surprised when things do not improve. The so-called improvement in the EU recently is but a small blip on the radar screen. At this point, we are exactly where I said we would be when he was elected 4 years ago. And I hope I am wrong about the next 4 years, but as a small business owner/operator, I see NOTHING positive approaching, other than the spin that the current administration and apologists will spew.

 

FBD, I do not know you nor your academic credentials so I must ask.

 

What do you base your disagreement with the CBO upon? Where did they go wrong in their study?

 

Are you calling the CBO "apologists?"

Housing market is still in the crapper

 

Housing market indexes have been rising since January.

FBD, I do not know you nor your academic credentials so I must ask.

 

What do you base your disagreement with the CBO upon? Where did they go wrong in their study?

 

Are you calling the CBO "apologists?"

No "academic credentials" to speak of, I hope that does not disqualify me from future discussions. I tend to pay mor attention to the FBDBO.

Apologists? No, but name the last time the CBO has ever been correct, long term. Because we are talking about the next 2-3 yrs, which I consider long term. The CBO never/cannot accurately take into account the affect that Govt. taxes and/or regulations will/can have on business/economic decisions. The CBO can only crunch numbers, not ideas or behavior.

Ignoring 31 straight months of job creation means you have zero credibility. Things have improved.

Going by that logic, Bush was a phenomenal job creator. He holds the record for most consecutive months.

 

If we allow the debt ceiling to rise, we are not holding our legislators responsible. Would anyone on this site be mad or upset if we went back to spending levels from 2008? I recall numerous people citing the spending levels from Bush's presidency as a reason for voting for Obama. I don't understand why it is all of a sudden okay to spend irresponsibly. Why not let the automatic spending cuts happen? At least in the military and some domestic spending like trimming the EPA. Compromising shouldn't consist of both sides agreeing to spend more -- which is what we've witnessed for the past decade.

Going by that logic, Bush was a phenomenal job creator. He holds the record for most consecutive months.

 

If we allow the debt ceiling to rise, we are not holding our legislators responsible. Would anyone on this site be mad or upset if we went back to spending levels from 2008? I recall numerous people citing the spending levels from Bush's presidency as a reason for voting for Obama. I don't understand why it is all of a sudden okay to spend irresponsibly. Why not let the automatic spending cuts happen? At least in the military and some domestic spending like trimming the EPA. Compromising shouldn't consist of both sides agreeing to spend more -- which is what we've witnessed for the past decade.

 

Are you saying things haven't improved since the collapse by just about every metric used to measure our economy?

I'll be interested to see what the jobs reports look like in December and January.

I'll be interested to see what the jobs reports look like in December and January.

 

Dec. should be decent with many seasonal jobs kicking in. Amazon in Hebron is looking for something like 800+ seasonal employees right now. Jan. probably not very good.

Someone who can understand all the ramifications of the fiscal cliff help me out a bit.

 

What are the short term - I mean 2012 and 2013 tax implications on a $100,000 wage earner with 2 kids and a home mortgage?

 

I get the SS tax reverting back to 6.2% from the currently lowered 4.2% rate ($2000 hike), but what else does the cliff cost this type of taxpayer?

Commerce Dept said that the trade gap shrunk last month and exports were and exports rose by 3.1%.

Someone who can understand all the ramifications of the fiscal cliff help me out a bit.

 

What are the short term - I mean 2012 and 2013 tax implications on a $100,000 wage earner with 2 kids and a home mortgage?

 

I get the SS tax reverting back to 6.2% from the currently lowered 4.2% rate ($2000 hike), but what else does the cliff cost this type of taxpayer?

 

I won't pretend to be an expert but I heard today that the "average" middle-class family would see taxes go up $4k in the first year.

If we allow the debt ceiling to rise, we are not holding our legislators responsible.

 

Can we please stop playing around with the debt ceiling?

 

Should spending be curbed? Sure. But the way to do that is by actually trimming down certain programs, not simply declaring that the United States no longer feels it needs to pay its bills.

Can we please stop playing around with the debt ceiling?

 

Should spending be curbed? Sure. But the way to do that is by actually trimming down certain programs, not simply declaring that the United States no longer feels it needs to pay its bills.

 

Bingo.

Someone who can understand all the ramifications of the fiscal cliff help me out a bit.

 

What are the short term - I mean 2012 and 2013 tax implications on a $100,000 wage earner with 2 kids and a home mortgage?

 

I get the SS tax reverting back to 6.2% from the currently lowered 4.2% rate ($2000 hike), but what else does the cliff cost this type of taxpayer?

 

I think what you mentioned and the child tax credit will revert back to $500/child instead of $1000/child and your tax bracket would go from 28% to 31%.

I won't pretend to be an expert but I heard today that the "average" middle-class family would see taxes go up $4k in the first year.

 

 

I have read that also. I am unsure of what is the average middle class family. Is that $100,000? Is it lower, maybe $50,000 to $70,000?