Let's get back to GM. They will eventually bankrupt because it's a failed business model.

Incorrect. Read the link I provided.

 

So it's possible to have a Right to Work state that makes things better in your eyes but it's not possible to have a union that makes things better in my eyes? Are you seeing the double standard? Is there a link that tells the other side of the story of the Right to Work in Indiana? Funny how a company decides they don't want to come to a non-Right to Work state but it's union's fault? Again, I know of plenty of industrial jobs in the state of Kentucky that aren't unionized. Right to Work is a non-issue in my eyes. Especially when my job is one of the better jobs to have in the state.

Did you consent?

 

Of course.

 

At the end of the day I don't care where my union dues go as long as they do what they are supposed to do when I come calling. They take 1% every check. I consented but I really don't care what they do with it as long as they answer the phone when I call.

OK, enough with the "uh", I shouldn't have started it. You vote your way, I'll vote mine. I just know how MY situation is under the current leadership and that is what I'll use to make my decision. But I do get tired of this he said he said crap that seems to suck us all into arguments. I usually try to stay out of this thread, don't know why I decided to visit. You're a good man PP.

 

 

Thank you. I try.

 

The he said he said rules the roost here. Drives me nuts. The truth is somewhere in the middle and everyone has their own version of it. Much like you I know how my situation is and I fear for how my situation would change. I think that is natural. I don't think either candidate is going to exponentially take care of this situations for all of America anytime soon. I only think time will take care of it and I think the people better suited to fix it as the POTUS and with their administration are wisely staying out of the race. God bless any man or woman willing to tackle this country's economic woes right now.

 

 

I try to stay away from here too but I always get sucked back in.

Or its a matter as to if you want your kids paying for the mistakes of businessmen who made poor choices in running a company.

 

They are at a 16 billion dollar loss right now.

 

Whose mistakes am I paying for now? Carter? Reagan? Ford? Nixon? Bush I?

Immoral? What would be immoral is how things would change drastically without a union. That's immoral.

 

Legal and moral are two different things. Again, nobody is forcing anyone to apply at a company ran by a union. Again, I know of many industrial plants that aren't unionized. Again, my unionized plant is routinely recognized as one of the best places to work in the state of Kentucky. Ranked #8 last year.

 

The generalized demonization of unions is hilarious and sad at the same time. I wish I could claim the Steelworkers and my local to be on the same page but we aren't. I don't agree with a lot of the things the Steelworkers do or don't do for us. That being said, I would muh rather work at this plant with this local union than work at a plant without. The pluses outweigh the minuses by far. My family agrees.

 

 

But too often, laws are immoral. Such as the law stating blacks are 3/5ths of a person. Majority of people, when given the chance, depart from their unions. States where RTW had passed are doing just fine. Those aren't the places you should worry about. I'll link you the article once again

Indiana Passes Right To Work — National Right to Work Committee Statement | The National Right to Work Committee®

 

 

Also. You are correct. No one is forcing them to apply. However, through federal law, certain industries must be unionized. Therefore, right from the get-go, employers lose the choice to bargain with their employees. Businesses don't like that.

 

I'll ask again. If unions are so good in todays world, why is it not voluntary to join?

 

And lastly. Your corporate greed comment isn't factual and it comes straight from pro-union rhetoric. 90 percent of donations to Right To Work come in the amount of $100 or less -- all given voluntarily.

 

Want to borrow my blinders?

Whose mistakes am I paying for now? Carter? Reagan? Ford? Nixon? Bush I?

 

You can give credit to every president listed, add Obama and Clinton as well.

 

Oh and Bush II

So it's possible to have a Right to Work state that makes things better in your eyes but it's not possible to have a union that makes things better in my eyes? Are you seeing the double standard? Is there a link that tells the other side of the story of the Right to Work in Indiana? Funny how a company decides they don't want to come to a non-Right to Work state but it's union's fault? Again, I know of plenty of industrial jobs in the state of Kentucky that aren't unionized. Right to Work is a non-issue in my eyes. Especially when my job is one of the better jobs to have in the state.

 

No its not just unions fault, they are, though, a contributing factor. RTW is not a non-issue. Workers deserve to keep their paycheck. If they want to voluntarily give it to a union, do it. Whether you like it or not, it's going to get passed in the next 5 years.

 

And when people overall make more money, like in RTW states, the middle class does better. I thought you agreed with spreading the wealth.

Whose mistakes am I paying for now? Carter? Reagan? Ford? Nixon? Bush I?

Clinton didn't make any mistakes??? :lol:

But too often, laws are immoral. Such as the law stating blacks are 3/5ths of a person. Majority of people, when given the chance, depart from their unions. States where RTW had passed are doing just fine. Those aren't the places you should worry about. I'll link you the article once again

Indiana Passes Right To Work — National Right to Work Committee Statement | The National Right to Work Committee®

 

 

Also. You are correct. No one is forcing them to apply. However, through federal law, certain industries must be unionized. Therefore, right from the get-go, employers lose the choice to bargain with their employees. Businesses don't like that.

 

I'll ask again. If unions are so good in todays world, why is it not voluntary to join?

 

And lastly. Your corporate greed comment isn't factual and it comes straight from pro-union rhetoric. 90 percent of donations to Right To Work come in the amount of $100 or less -- all given voluntarily.

 

Want to borrow my blinders?

 

 

 

It's not voluntary to join because unions have negotiated with that company to provide the labor for that company. If you want to perform a labor job at Corning in Harrodsburg you will have to join our union. If you want my hourly wage you has to join my union. If you want my 401K package you have to join my union. If you want my yearly rising excellent healthcare plan you have to join my union. If you want one of the greatest vacation plans in the state you have to join my union. And pay 1% dues out of your checks(about 1-1.2K annually). Again, we are annually amongst the top 25 best places to work in the state of Kentucky. This is why my union is good. Please tell me why is my union and job so bad? Because they make you enjoy all of these things for the opportunity to be a part of the Corning family? If Kentucky is made a right to work state I'm sure I'd be fine. I've developed enough relationships here at Corning to where my job wouldn't be in jeopardy but so much would change so fast it would be a sad situation for a lot of people. It's sad people don't understand that.

Clinton didn't make any mistakes??? :lol:

 

I wasn't a kid anymore then. I was able to vote for Clinton so he doesn't count. Any mistakes from Clinton that I am paying for now I made the choice to pay for them when I voted for him.

 

Same for Obama and Bush II. People say stuff like our kids are going to pay for such and such's mistakes. That affects me 0% emotionally. We all are paying for someone's mistakes all of the time. Hopefully our kids will fix it since we obviously can't.

No its not just unions fault, they are, though, a contributing factor. RTW is not a non-issue. Workers deserve to keep their paycheck. If they want to voluntarily give it to a union, do it. Whether you like it or not, it's going to get passed in the next 5 years.

 

And when people overall make more money, like in RTW states, the middle class does better. I thought you agreed with spreading the wealth.

 

 

I do. I'm not convinced more wealth is made due to RTW. I know for a fact wages here at Corning would decrease tremendously if Kentucky went to RTW.

Back to GM bankruptcy. GM took OUR money and Govt intervention while Ford refused the same even though the Govt tried to force them to take bailout money. Today GM is on the Brink of Bankruptcy AGAIN!!! and Ford is moving forward with solid performance and healthy bank statement.

 

By this definition, compare the results of Ford and GM for the last quarter. Both are based in Detroit. They face similar taxation levels. Are saddled with similar labor union issues. But GM received a bailout and Ford didn’t. Yet, according to a recent Wall Street Journal story:

GM made $1,962 on every vehicle it produced in North America during the first quarter of this year. Ford, by contrast, made $3,150, a third more per vehicle.

GM’s North American operating profit rose 31% to $1.7 billion with margins improving to 7 % from 5.6% a year ago. Ford’s profits, rose 16% to $2.1 billion, giving it a profit margin of 11.5 %.

GM’s U.S. market share fell nearly two percentage points from a year ago, to 17.2% whereas Ford’s fell about 0.8 to 16.8%.

 

In other words, Ford made $800 million more than GM despite the fact that it has a smaller market share and has major debt-service costs that GM doesn’t because its bailout from Uncle Sam came in the form of equity, not a loan.

Ford vs. GM and the Auto Bailout Experiment - Hit & Run : Reason.com

I do. I'm not convinced more wealth is made due to RTW. I know for a fact wages here at Corning would decrease tremendously if Kentucky went to RTW.

 

That's a common misconception. Trends show an increase in purchasing power in RTW states, as oppossed to lower wages. If RTW passed in Kentucky we would experience substantial job growth. I know for a fact unemployment would drop in Corning.

No bailout, no strings attached: Ford CEO Alan Mulally started restructuring Ford before the financial crisis and, as a result, managed to keep the company's autonomy and long-term vision intact. Conversely, Uncle Sam's $80 billion bailout of Chrysler and GM had a material impact on the companies -- from reports that the government made GM close dealerships too fast to a focus on fuel-efficient cars that many industry insiders thought was more part of a political agenda than a business plan. The U.S. government still owns a 27% stake in GM, and the Canadian government also owns a 12% stake in the company. In a perfect world, that ownership doesn't equate to influence, but let's be realistic: The U.S. government gets a say in GM.

Why Ford is a better buy than GM- MSN Money

 

Free market forced Ford to be smarter, Bailout money and Govt intervention in decision making has led to poor management and another failure of GM.