I've said it in other threads and will say it here again: who is running Mr Romney's campaign? The cat needs to be replaced.

 

They fire up a response ad to this (IMO) non-issue with a small business owner from NH. The guy used in the ad to complain that he "got there on his own" took almost $1M in govt loans.

 

I have serious doubts about the campaign manager.

 

That's pretty funny right there.

 

As to the campaign manager, if he were in business he'd already have lost his job.

Sorry but education is only what you make of it. A teacher can put the information out there but it's up to the student to learn it and make the most of it.

 

Roadways - yes they are tax payer funded. If I pay taxes then my money helped pay for the roads. Besides this isn't something that is directly helping me build my business. I still have to have the idea, the capital, sell the idea, and implement the idea. Because I may have shipped a product using a government road doesn't mean the government helped me build my business. The government did their job. Keep in mind people built the government first.

 

Airways- Government didn't build the airways so not sure how this applies.

 

Waterways - Goverment didn't build the oceans so again not seeing the connections.

 

I've stayed away from this thread because... well... because I read the first page and hated absolutely everything about it. Part of the problem is that we can't even agree on a basic set of facts from which we can construct a narrative. It makes discussion on issues like these darn near to impossible and it's why I hate them.

 

No, the skies and the oceans were not made by the government. But cities, states and the federal government have spent A LOT of money on the infrastructure necessary to use them: airports and shipping ports.

 

I don't know what that means in the context of this thread, but infrastructure improvements are still infrastructure improvements and the various levels of government are given the authority to spend money on them primarily to make commerce easier and more productive.

You wouldn't expect me to because....?????

Because you tend to agree with his line of thinking and support most of what's he's done. Nothing sinister was meant.

I don't believe that they are so different, so please explain.

Sorry, I went back and re-read everything, not sure what I thought you meant the first time.

 

While I still don't thinks its the same it is closer then I made it out to be.

 

Teachers can do the absolute best job possible and it won't mean squat if the kid doesn't want to learn. That doesn't mean teachers are off the hook if a kid doesn't learn. It could be because they are lousy teachers. If you have 30 kids your class and 27 of them got while 3 couldn't find their butt with both hands and a flash light then you are most likely a good teacher that did their job. Teachers have a limited amount of time with each student so you are pretty limited on your impact on each. That's just the reality of our education system. There is a great responsiblity on the student and parents to do their part. With parents you can do everything in the world right and your kid could still end up being a bad egg and vice versa. However more times then not kids are a product of their parents.

That isn't the point. What the President is guilty of is an unclear antecedent. If you listen to the entire statement, what he is saying is that if you have a business you use public roads, bridges and other infrastructure and that you didn't build that. The that refers to the public infrastructure.

I did listen to it. I'm going by the words that came out of the man's mouth, not trying to spin it.

Sorry, I went back and re-read everything, not sure what I thought you meant the first time.

 

While I still don't thinks its the same it is closer then I made it out to be.

 

Teachers can do the absolute best job possible and it won't mean squat if the kid doesn't want to learn. That doesn't mean teachers are off the hook if a kid doesn't learn. It could be because they are lousy teachers. If you have 30 kids your class and 27 of them got while 3 couldn't find their butt with both hands and a flash light then you are most likely a good teacher that did their job. Teachers have a limited amount of time with each student so you are pretty limited on your impact on each. That's just the reality of our education system. There is a great responsiblity on the student and parents to do their part. With parents you can do everything in the world right and your kid could still end up being a bad egg and vice versa. However more times then not kids are a product of their parents.

 

Actually, for some of the kids that I work with, I see them more hours in the week than their parents do. I certainly don't want to build myself up (so please don't think that is what I am doing) but in my sixteen years of teaching I have had many kids graduate and come back and tell me that I made a difference in their life. Perha ps it was what I taught, how I taught it or a (gasp) a character or moral lesson that they learned. I'm talking "kids" that are now doctors, scientists, military, teachers and even small business owners. For others, I wasn't the one that made the difference, but other teachers I know were. I know some that ministers, pastors and other religiously affiliated people made a difference. For some it is a coach. Lastly, I know that there are some kids that, even with situations of good parents, teachers and community members, they never felt like that "one" person stood out to them. Yet, if they are a success (defined by me as being a productive member of society) then it is likely that part of who they are comes from people in their lives during their foundational years.

I wasn't trying to imply teachers can't have that affect on kids or make a difference in their lives, so please don't take it that way. Not everyone fits into the same mold.

I wasn't trying to imply teachers can't have that affect on kids or make a difference in their lives, so please don't take it that way. Not everyone fits into the same mold.

 

I'm not only talking about teachers. That just happens to be the example that I know best. That was my original point about people not being "islands." I doubt that there is successful person who is successful only because of his/herself.

I still have a problem with just the one line. He said if you have a business, you didn't build that, somebody else made that happen. His words. He didn't say, If you have a business, you didn't build that alone, someone helped you with our infrastructure. Yet many of you claim that's what he meant. If he's as smart as he's been portrayed, he would have conveyed that message clearly if that was indeed the message he intended.

I still have a problem with just the one line. He said if you have a business, you didn't build that, somebody else made that happen. His words. He didn't say, If you have a business, you didn't build that alone, someone helped you with our infrastructure. Yet many of you claim that's what he meant. If he's as smart as he's been portrayed, he would have conveyed that message clearly if that was indeed the message he intended.

 

Look at the entire paragraph and the antecedent of "that" is clear. It is the infrastructure that he is talking about.

Look at the entire paragraph and the antecedent of "that" is clear. It is the infrastructure that he is talking about.

Disagree. Look at the comment about the Clinton administration "We (the government) created 23 million new jobs, turned a deficit into a surplus, and rich people did just fine.* We (the government) created a lot of millionaires.

That build up was for the "you didn't build that" comment.

I saw it on FoxNews, so it must be true, right?

 

Great read.

 

Obama's right, Americans can't succeed without government | Fox News

 

My grandfather was a small business entrepreneur. He owned a clothing store in Penns Grove, New Jersey, and families came from across the southern part of the state to get slacks and blouses and jumpers for their kids. My grandfather employed two people who earned decent, middle class wages and made a good living for himself, probably upper middle class for that region.

And good for him. He worked hard and earned it.

 

But there were things that helped my grandfather’s business that he didn’t have to pay for. The roads trucks drove on to bring him products to sell. The court system that incorporated his business and protected the patents of what he sold. The police force that made it safe for people to shop there. The public schools that taught his employees how to read and do math, so my grandfather didn’t have to teach them. Make no mistake about it — my grandfather succeeded because of his hard work and initiative. But government played a supporting role.

By grandfather was not rich, certainly not by today’s standards. But when Ronald Reagan was president, my grandfather paid almost 50% of his income in taxes to help make sure that good public schools and safe streets and the things we all need to succeed in America would be available for the next generation. Today, hedge fund managers and big business CEOs pay lower tax rates than middle class families. In fact, the tax rate for the very wealthy is the lowest it’s been in over 60 years.

 

 

Read more: Obama's right, Americans can't succeed without government | Fox News

I saw it on FoxNews, so it must be true, right?

 

Great read.

 

Obama's right, Americans can't succeed without government | Fox News

Fox News? That's your source? Your credibility is shot!

 

But wait, that's not what he was saying! At least that's what I've been told in this thread.

Fox News? That's your source? Your credibility is shot!

 

But wait, that's not what he was saying! At least that's what I've been told in this thread.

 

We are so in sync today! When I posted it, I was thinking about your CNN link!!!! :lol:

 

I have said what this author says in this thread, though without the personal anecdote...or at least I tried!

Disagree. Look at the comment about the Clinton administration "We "](the government[/b]) created 23 million new jobs, turned a deficit into a surplus, and rich people did just fine.* We "](the government)[/[/b]COLOR] created a lot of millionaires.

That build up was for the "you didn't build that" comment.

 

How about the country instead of the government. Since President Obama was not part of the government during the Clinton administration, it wouldn't make sense to use "we" if he was refering to the government. I think you are looking for a way to be offended.