Henry Steele

Okay, the numbers are what the numbers are, he's over 3,000. Congratulations on a great accomplishment and a nice write up. One suggestion, though. The numbers I looked at came from the KHSAA Sweet Sixteen website, which come from the school in a stat sheet provided after the regional tournament. I didn't get numbers from any unreliable internet site or from the Courier Journal. I relied upon numbers recorded at the KHSAA website that were supplied by Elliott County. For at least the past two seasons, someone from Elliott County has underreported his point totals to Sweet Sixteen officials. Why the school would have two sets of numbers, one set that was reported to the Sweet Sixteen and one set that was reported to the Independent, is anybody's guess. Also, as Dale has pointed out several times, the Elliott County statisticians were a couple of hundred points late in acknowledging #2,000. My suggestion is to check to see that the correct numbers are reported when Elliott County punches its ticket to Rupp. At some point, when his career is over and he ranks way up there on the list of career scorers, the KHSAA review committee would undoubtedly inquire as to why there were two sets of numbers. One more thing - and I am sincere about this - I hope to see EC at least get to Saturday morning - and if the Ninth Region representative is out, I'll be cheering for EC to get red hot from behind the arc and surprise people. I love the idea of a small school team that plays up and down the floor. If Holmes and EC are both lucky enough to get to Saturday morning, I'll see you there. I'll be the guy with the calculator.

Got my numbers from the official KHSAA website for sophomore and junior seasons, and for the frosh season from the previous thread about him scoring his 3,000th. That's where the discrepancy lies. Two days ago Dale Ferguson gave me the explanation that the 8th grade points hadn't been counted previously. Now it appears that the point totals reported to the KHSAA were not the same as those given to the paper. The problem is not with my math, it's with the different point totals given to the KHSAA and to the paper. The difference for those three seasons is about 200 points - from the outset, I have just been curious as to why the numbers don't agree - unsanctioned tournaments, etc. It caught my eye that there was about a calendar year in between #2,000 and #3,000 - I figured about 30 games - and that would have required about 33 PPG. Since I had never seen anywhere that he was putting up numbers like that I asked - politely, I think, if you review the thread - whether anyone had the year by year breakdown. I'll repeat, I like him as a player - hope to see him Saturday morning in March against my Bulldogs. But I also think it is doing a disservice to him - and diminishing what he has accomplished - if the numbers were inflated. I'll shut up now and say congrats now on scoring all those points, whether its 2,000, 2,800, 3,000 or 3,500. He's had a great career. If anyone knows why there is a discrepancy between the official KHSAA numbers and those reported to the paper, though, I'd be interested. Thanks.

Newport was within 2 midway through the 2nd quarter - 19-17 believe - then Highlands went on a run to go into the half up 35-22.

Nice article: I agree Clears up the numbers: Not so much And as to whether it is embarrassing "the kid", I haven't read yet that "the kid" has put the numbers together. Simple fact is, the numbers don't add up: Eighth grade: ??? (but do the math at "just under 10 ppg" whatever that means) Frosh: 582 points Soph: 727 points Junior: 742 points Senior: 470 points (as of date he scored #3,000) The frosh, soph, junior and senior numbers add up to 2,511. At 10 points per game as an eighth grader, they had to have played 49 games. The numbers are what the numbers are. Sorry.

I will rest assured then, knowing that he scored 530 points in the last 12 games of 2007-08, an average of 44 points per game, since you told me the point totals have been checked and are correct. I guess I missed all those 40+ point games. And just for the record, from what I have seen I think he is a talented kid and I like the way he, and the rest of EC, plays. I also think he has had a tremendous career and put up great numbers. I just hope those numbers haven't been inflated - I would hope we could agree that that happens from time to time at the high school level - because then the legitimacy of ALL of his numbers is called into question and it casts a cloud over an otherwise tremendous high school career.

The 470 number is accurate, as far as I can tell. But the 2,500 coming into this year has to be wrong - he scored his 2,000th in the 18th game of the year last year. For him to have 2,500 coming into this year, that would mean he scored 500 in 12 games - 41 ppg!

Upon further review, it looks like the game that he scored his 2,000th in put EC at 17-1 on the season; meaning they only played another 12 games last year after he scored his 2,000th. Add that to the 18 games EC played in this year when he supposedly got his 3,000th, and it looks like he scored 1,000 points in 30 games - an average of 33 ppg. Again, maybe it's just me, but it seems like there are some numerical inaccuracies. Anybody know where I am wrong?

Alright, I still couldn't get my arms around the numbers, but this is the information available in these threads and through the KHSAA: For 2008-09: 470 points (26.1 ppg for 18 games) For 2007-08: 742 points (723 for regular season + 19 in Sweet Sixteen) For 2006-07: 727 points (674 regular season + 28 + 25 in Sweet Sixteen) For 2005-06: 540 points * (He is referenced as averaging 18 points a game, and I extrapolated that for 30 games since they didn't get to the Sweet Sixteen) For 2004-05: ??? But for the numbers to work, it has to be 521 points. Assuming 30 games that would be about 18 ppg. Does that sound right for his eighth grade season? The other thing that doesn't exactly seem to fit is that he got his 2,000th point on 1-17-08; which would mean he had to score 1,000 points between 1-17-08 and 1-27-09. Assuming EC played 15 games (and I couldn't confirm that - I assume someone with last year's schedule could verify or dispute that assumption) after 01-17-08 on their way to a final season record of 26-4, and they've played 18 games this year, that would mean he had to average 30 ppg for those 33 games, and that is inconsistent with the stats I have seen. Can anybody tell me where my numbers are incorrect?

You may be right, but I think, like LABS, it is still subject to debate. I know that if we had been having this conversation in January 1978, I "would have been sure" that Doug Schloemer, Bud Wimzie, Mark Moeves, Phil Davis, Dicky Beal and Rick Walton were all gonna play at the next level (and I would have been right), and I would have argued that possibly Tony Malik, El Simpson or Mark Elmer might be good enough, as well. Schloemer wound up at UC, Dicky at UK, Wimzie at Cincinnati Tech, Moeves at Wilmington (I think), Davis at Central Arkansas (Scotty Pippen's school), and Walton at Cumberland. I hope all of the things work out, and there's at least one state championship trophy in Covington sometime in the next two years, but IMO this team hasn't definitively locked up the "most talented" tag yet. I hope my opinion changes.

I'm a fan of those teams, as well, but I think the next two years squads have a chance to get to uncharted territory, at least as far as northern Kentucky goes. So, by any objective standard, I think they might wind up being "better". I reconcile that those teams were the most fun to watch though, because running the break the way Phil and Dicky did is a lost art, and I always liked a break that ended with a no look pass as opposed to a dunk. Without getting too far ahead of things, I think if they could bring a state championship or two home to the Ninth Region, there would be a pretty strong argument that the Bulldog program is one of the most successful in the Commonwealth, at least over the last 35 years - right now they can boast 3 state finals (all runners up - need that trophy to bring the argument home). By the way LABS, I think you lose some street cred when you throw down "geek speak" like Intellivision and Commodore 64 - the only thing missing was the TRS 80 reference.

Atari - good one. Can I still get those at Computerland?

I'll ask again - anybody got the 8th grade, freshman, sophomore and junior numbers?

Congratulations on joining an elite club. The numbers for some of those on the list are ridiculous - Ervin Stepp averaged over 50 a game for his junior and senior seasons to get onto the list - you can do the math, but that would have been 1,500 points per season if they played 30 games. I have looked for King Kelly Coleman's complete stats before, but couldn't find them. I think I read once, though, that he came to the Sweet Sixteen once averaging over 50 a game. Just out of curiousity, anybody got the 5 year stats on Ferg - average and total points?

I'm impressed with the effort to spell his name correctly.

Hits the nail on the head. Holmes beat Scott County very convincingly, BUT it was on a night that Phares was a non factor due to foul trouble, Holmes shot the ball well, and Euton did very little until garbage time at the end. As a Holmes guy, I hope things go that way the next time, but no way do I count on it. I would expect the next meeting, should it happen, to be a great game where you will see more production out of Phares for SC and Rico for Holmes.

Were the state finals on TV last year? If not, would I be correct in thinking that the last time Holmes played on TV (other than local cable) would have been on Channel 19 in 1978 when they lost in the state finals to Shelby County, back when Channel 19 carried the state finals?

Also beat Assumption (who just beat Sacred Heart), LexCath, Boone County, Ryle, Notre Dame - so schedule is not lacking quality opponents (at least 3 wins over top 20 teams) - how are they not higher than 13?

As I said in the first post, I am certain that NewCath was No. 1 in the state that year heading into the state tournament. I was wondering if there were others I was forgetting. As far as the debate about SK81 being the best team ever from No. Ky., we've had this debate before - if state championships is the ONLY criteria you apply, then, yeah, they are "the best". But it's hard to put them ahead of 67 CovCath and 78 Holmes (who both missed the state championship by last second shots in the finals). The 78 Holmes team produced alot of college basketball talent, including two Div 1A players (Schloemer, Beal) and at least a few others (Davis, Wimzie, Moeves) that played at the next level. This year's Holmes squad still has some chapters yet to write. I'm not, however, willing to concede "most talented" or "best" at this point, though. Superlatives are within their reach, but I gotta tell ya I'd love to be able to see 78 Holmes (with Dicky running the point and a good size front lcourt including Mr. Basketball Schloemer) take on this year's squad.

Could be, but the best I can do is go back to about 75. In 78, Holmes was ranked in the top 3 all year, but I don't think they ever got to number 1. Their only two losses that year were a loss to Shelby County in the LIT and a loss to Shelby County in the state finals (Beal, Schloemer, goaltend, etc.) I think Shelby County went wire to wire that year. I would think that other possible candidates for a #1 ranking would have been the Holy Cross team that got to the finals (64?), the CovCath team that lost in the state finals (67), Highlands team that lost in the finals with Smith and Lorenzen, or Holmes state finalist in 90. Simon Kenton in 1981 was definitely NOT ranked number 1 in the state before the state tournament. Bottom line is I think that this year's Holmes team has already done something (held a #1 ranking for about a month) that no other team from No. Ky has EVER done. Any disputes?

Refresh my memory about HC - was that a McClendon or Harney team? How deep did they go in March?

I need a history lesson here. With Holmes atop the state polls, and alot of talk about them being the best team ever from Northern Kentucky (still have to fulfill the destiny, of course), I am trying to remember: how many teams from Northern Kentucky have ever been ranked No. 1 in the state? Off the top of my head, I've got NCC in 1984 - who am I forgetting?

Against the best team in the region, Highlands, she could not have been more impressive - precise stats escape me but I think it was like 32-33pts, 16 rebs. And to top it off, she had to have shot something like 13-15 from the field. An impressive display, to say the least.

Good one. Actually I assumed it was 5 field goals in the the first half.

Please someone that was there give us the back story on a 9-6 halftime score. Was Tony Yates coaching the Indians?

Everyone can make their arguments their own way, but if we go to 30 years, Holmes has played on Saturday five times (finals in 78, 90, and 08 and semifinals in 80 and 07) - I don't think any Ninth Region team even approaches that kind of state tournament performance. Just haven't been able to close the deal - don't want to jinx anything so I won't make any references to this year or next.