85lived

Let me add to my previous post that I am not necessarily saying that the coaches are always right in the ways that they handle things either but my point is you cannot have problems in different sports with different coaches and there not be a bigger underlying problem.

We read about problems with Greenup's football team this fall with players being kicked off the team and parents being in an uproar over the coach's discipline technique. Now we hear of players quitting the basketball team within the last 2 weeks and 1 being dismissed for disrespect. Why would anyone want to be a part of any of their sports programs??? The more I see and hear, it becomes more obvious to me that the problems down there goes much deeper than who the coach is. IMO, the parents and kids are out of control and you have the "inmates trying to run the asylum." The parents need to set a better example and the kids need to learn some respect. There's a common thread that runs through the continued poblems at GC and since the coaches are not the same for every sport we hear about problems with, it becomes difficult to always think that they are the problem there. Hmmmmm??

Why? He inherited the best team in the region. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve it but it makes for an easy transition when you take over the top team. (See Tubby Smith, 1998) IMO, if you were going to give a mid-season COY you would really have to consider Merle Kidwell of Russell. Look what he is doing with a team that the coaches picked as the #7 or #8 team in the preseason. It took them about a month to crack the Super 7 in the Daily Independent because nobody expected them to be very good. He took heat for 2 years about not being able to win it all with Fortman and Okoro. They were beaten by a team with 2 "pretty good" players who earned D1 scholarships. Now Fortman & Okoro are gone and they are still winning with talent that the other area coaches felt was middle of the pack at best based on their preseason picks. They may not always win "pretty" but they just win. I think the man might be able to coach a little. Who knows what will happen by the end of the year but since you mentioned "as of right now" I thought I would give my opinion. I'm sure there are others you can argue for but I'm sure that whoever wins the region will probably get it. We will know the answer in a little over 2 months.

Congratulations to DeSarae!! Is this her 10th year of varsity ball or does it just seem that way? LOL I'm sure there are more than a few coaches in the 10th who are looking forward to not having to prepare for her after this year. Good luck at the next level.

Not so sure that the new coach will lead them to the "promised land". He had teams at Greenup that were better than he has this year and didn't get out of the district with them. I'm going to say that Bath's "emergence" has much more to do with the other teams in the region, excluding Elliott, lowering their level of play instead of Bath coming up to the upper end. I'm not saying that Bath is not improved, they are. What I am saying is the overall level of play in the 16th region is at an all time low. Elliott is very good but there are usually 3 or 4 other teams that would challenge them. That is obviously not the case this year.

Very true!! Ashland is a good team without her but can be really good with her in the lineup.

16TH REGION 1.Elliott County 97.2 2.Bath County 65.0 3.Raceland 64.9 4.East Carter 64.0 5.Rose Hill 63.1 6.Ashland Blazer 62.3 7.Morgan County 61.9 8.Fairview 61.4 9.West Carter 56.2 10.Rowan County 56.0 11.Boyd County 53.2 12.Fleming County 48.9 13.Lewis County 48.6 14.Greenup County 41.4 15.Russell 39.0 16.Menifee County 33.8 I think the difference in the point rating of Elliott compared to the rest of the 16th speaks volumes to the opinion that other than Elliott, the 16th region is not very good. And, if Elliott were not in the 16th there are about 7 or 8 teams that are just about equal and it would be anybody's region to win. As it turns out those 8 teams will battle to see who will get the priviledge of getting beat by 20+ points in the region final.

I don't think that people are downplaying Rowan. Everyone in the 16th region knows they are the team to beat and have played the toughest schedule. I feel they are getting a lot of credit on here. I also feel that any difference between them and the other top teams in the region is not that much and they are very beatable. That's not being disrespectful or not giving them credit. It's simply the current state of affairs in 16th region girls basketball. There is NO dominant team like there is in the 16th region boys. As for the Ashland argument about Ward not playing and the potential effect it had in the Mason game. You cannot play without your leading scorer and rebounder, lose by her point average, & not feel that having her in the game would have made a difference. It changes more than just the point total. Also, you cannot knock Ashland for feeling they are just as good as Rowan. They are one of the favorites to win the region this year as well. I know coach Bradley knows that little separates the top teams in the 16th this year. With that in mind, I'm sure he likes his chances if and when these 2 teams should meet. Why, because there is no clearcut favorite and on any given night his Kittens are as good or better than anyone. On the other hand, like all the other coaches he knows that there are a handful of teams out there who can beat him on any given night.

Let's not get too carried away hoops gal. I agree with you as well that Rowan is the favorite to win the region but I will also say that I have seen them play and they are beatable on any given night by some of the other top teams in the 16th. We are not talking about Elliott's boys here. They beat Raceland by 10 with Raceland's best post player at about 60% and Clark going down with an injury in that game. The lead was only 6 points inside the last minute. Now, you can say Rowan had an off night but Raceland is not in the Top 5 in the region right now so if they played like that against Ashland, Russell, East, or Elliott, they probably left the gym with a loss that night. Again, they are the favorite but not head and shoulders above the other top teams.

SEED

Why is someone from a rival district creating a negative thread and politicing for someone to get a job that is not even open?? Hypothetical or not, I cannot see positives coming from this thread. Worry about your own house. Russell will take care of their's.

Let's just look at the schedules of the Top 7 teams as rated in this thread. 1. Ashland (9 - 2) Overall Record of Teams Played: 72 - 63, .530 Overall Record of Teams Beaten: 52 - 60, .460 Best Quality Win: Russell 10-3 2. Rowan Co. (11 - 3) Overall Record of Teams Played: 109 - 85, .560 Overall Record of Teams Beaten: 82 - 72, .530 Best Quality Wins: Mason Co 9 - 3, Johnson Central 9 - 3 3. Morgan Co. (9 - 4) Overall Record of Teams Played: 79 - 85, .480 Overall Record of Teams Beaten: 51 - 65, .440 Best Quality Win: Raceland 10 - 6 4. Russell (10 - 3) Overall Record of Teams Played: 93 - 71, .570 Overall Record of Teams Beaten: 59 - 65, .480 Best Quality Win: Knott Co. Central 9 - 5 5. East Carter (8 - 6) Overall Record of Teams Played: 104 - 80, .570 Overall Record of Teams Beaten: 44 - 63, .410 Best Quality Win: Morgan Co. 9 - 4 6. Raceland (10 - 6) Overall Record of Teams Played: 90 - 100, .470 Overall Record of Teams Beaten: 39 - 70, .360 Best Quality Win: Menifee Co. 7 - 6 7. Elliott Co. (7 - 6) Overall Record of Teams Played: 94 - 76, .550 Overall Record of Teams Beaten: 39 - 46, .460 Best Quality Win: Morgan Co. 9 - 4 Based on the info I have provided here is how I rank the Top 7: 1. Rowan Co. - 2nd best winning percentage of teams played (.560) behind Russell and East (.570) and BEST winning percentage of teams beaten (.530). I just think they are a little better than everyone else and have played the toughest schedule. 2. Ashland - #4 in overall winning percentage of teams played (.530) behind the 3 mentioned above and tied with Elliott for 3rd highest winning percentage (.460) of teams beaten behind Rowan (.530) & Russell (.480). However, they own wins over Russell & East so I place them at #2. 3. Russell - Tied with East for best overall winning percentage of teams played (.570) & 2nd behind Rowan in overall winning percentage of teams beaten (.480) but suffered a tough loss at home to Ashland so I have them at a solid #3 right now. 4. East Carter - Nipping at Russell's heels at this point in the season for #3 spot but just a little below due to overall winning percentage of teams beaten (.410) and still recovering from loss of Sargent. Also, lost big to Ashland (21 points) compared to Russell's 6 point loss. Obviously able to make a move up the ladder as the season goes on but settling in at #4 right now. 5. Elliott Co. - This team scraps the entire 32 mins and they have no conscience about shooting from anywhere on the court. Fun team to watch and their style makes them dangerous in any game. A little better overall winning percentage of the teams they have beaten but East beat them by 4 at Elliott so I have them settling solidly into the #5 spot. 6. Morgan Co. - In my opinion they are the most overrated of the Top 7 in this thread based on their schedule and they have been beaten by East & Elliott in head to head competition. Yes, I know they beat Elliott but Elliott beat them this week so based on the most recent game I have to place them below Elliott. 7. Raceland - The biggest unknown of the Top 7 with probably the biggest upside due to them never being 100% healthy so far this season. When Keeton gets back to full strength and Clark returns from her injury, don't be surprised to see them challenge the teams above them. However, at this time based on head to head performances against all the teams above them except Ashland & East and their best quality win coming against Menifee Co this is where they fall right now. Well, that's how I see it right now with, in my opinion, the only 7 teams with any chance of winning the region. Rowan & Ashland are the clear frontrunners but any of the other 5 are capable on a given night. I did my best to use the #'s to rank my teams with a little help from head to head competition. I don't expect everyone to totally agree and the bottom line is, like all polls, this is just one man's opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. All games are won & lost on the court. Enjoy!!!

That is certainly that school's choice to do. Maybe they are more worried about keeping their upperclassmen happy than winning ballgames?? If you are a smaller school you probably need middle schoolers more than large schools like Ryle "should" but Ryle's program has not been very strong and if you have "special" talent that is ready for the varsity level and can help the team I say move them up. It helps the development of those players and allows you to develop more younger players in your middle school program.

The strength is a Class A school not schools. After Elliott there are only no Class A schools who are better than average. This is a very down year in the 16th with the exception of Elliott. No other team in the 16th would have a chance to win a game in the state tournament. Elliott is good but they would not dominate the 16th in past years like they are this year. I am going to say that there are several teams over the past 10 years in the 16th that would give this year's Elliott team a run for their money. It's a shame that there aren't any right now that seem to be able to. Maybe Ashland will when the Lions come calling on Feb 5th??

It always amazed me how torn up people get over polls. Polls are opinion. Why does it really matter what others think? No one will be sent to the state tournament based on a poll. This is not college football. All games will be decided on the floor. If it really frustrates you that bad, use it as motivation. In reality, being able to use a poll to motivate is the only real value I see in them.

How sad is it?? Middle school is for development only. Win/loss records mean nothing at that level. If the 2 girls who moved up were ready to play varsity that opens the door for 2 more girls to get playing time at the middle school level who would not be playing otherwise. I see it as a plus for the development of the varsity program. :thumb:

Elliott / Raceland game is definitely the championship game. Elliott won the first battle. Keys are how well Raceland handles Elliott's pressure vs how well Elliott can handle Raceland's big girls. Don't think Keeton played the first time around for Raceland. She could be the difference. When is Clark expected back for Raceland?

Why??

Are you kidding? Do you really believe that? If Boone Co had that rule then they needed to change it. It is much different with girls than boys. Many middle school girls are much more physically capable of competing on the high school level than boys and the bottom line about varsity sports is the BEST players play regardless of their age. If they take an upperclassman's playing time then they must be better than those upperclassmen. This is not Rec ball. You earn playing time based on ability, not age. Obviously, she is able to compete and those two 8th graders need to be playing at the varsity level. They will only make Ryle better. If I am a TRUE Ryle fan, I want the coach to play the players who give Ryle the best chance to win so why would I care about that "rule". The KHSAA has no rule against it so good for them for finally changing their "rule".

I really can't believe this thread has gone on this long!! The same thing has been said over and over again for over 4 pages now. Don't you think it has gone on long enough? It's obvious that many on here are unhappy with the current coach. Do you really believe that bashing the coach continuously on BGP is going to change anything?? Most people who read what you all are saying just sit back and say, "I'm glad that I don't have to deal with the parents at that school". I am not assuming that most of the people on here who are bashing the coach are parents or players because that would be a violation and who you are really doesn't matter but I will ask this question. Do many of you get outside of the 8th region much? The reason I say this is I have the luxury of seeing teams from all over the state play as well as teams from Ohio and if you all really believe that this team is good enough to contend for a region title, regardless of who the coach is, the 8th region is weak or you are blinded by loyalty. As I stated earlier in this thread, I have seen Walton on more than one occassion and they do have 2 nice players with good supporting players but they are by no means a powerful team. They are an average team who will be able to compete with other average teams. I am by no means being negative towards the players at Walton, just stating what I have seen. In the games I saw the coach played around 10 players so I could see the amount of talent that is there. Is she the best coach in the world? Probably not but she was not bad either from what I saw. She did try to make adjustments during the game and tried to get the players to work hard. Did I see some things that I might have done differently? Sure, but we all see things from the outside that we would do differently if we were sitting there. Everyone goes through growing pains as a coach and you get better each game but let me say this, whether I agreed with everything she did or not, she did nothing that led me to believe that coaching cost Walton those games. A coach can give the players every tool to be successful but the bottom line is the PLAYERS have to execute it. If your players have trouble playing against high pressure, as they did in the games I saw, no press breaker in the world will solve that. Coaches often get too much credit or too much blame. Most coaches will tell you this. The team with the most talent wins 95% of the time. In their 6 losses this year they were beaten by an average of 16 points. Even a great coach wouldn't change that. Their closest loss was 7 points. A great coach may have helped in that one but there are no guarantees. It still all comes down to the players' ability to execute what the coach gives them. Parents are either a program's biggest support system OR biggest cancer. Sadly, the latter is often the case and it appears that it may be here as well. The worst thing they do is give their kids an excuse for why things aren't going the way they think it should. I call it "little league parent syndrome". The parent thinks their child hung the moon and is the best thing since sliced bread. If they don't get the playing time or position the parent thinks they deserve then it's someone else's fault, usually the coach. They are so blinded by love that they cannot see or accept the reality. With my kids I always told them if they were unhappy with their playing time then they had to work harder than everyone else. If they are still better than you, then accept that and make the best of every opportunity you get. That's the way life is. There is almost always someone out there who is better at what you do than you are. And remember, at the high school level the best players play regardless of their age. We all have our roles. The sooner they learn that the better. Bottom line: Be a SUPPORTER not a cancer. The players read this crap. I really wish someone would close this thread!!

Elliott & Fairview in the finals. Elliott Wins.

Russell averaged 59 ppg last year and their opponents averaged 50 ppg. They beat Rowan by 29, Raceland by 29, East by 24, & West by 24. That is only 4 games over 20 points out of 32 games. There were no games won by 30 and the majority were single digits to low teens. I think that we can agree that winning by an average of 9 points does not allow many opportunities for extended playing time for the lower end of the bench. Plus, players do not get better by putting them in over their heads. In a close game they would be in over their head and potentially cost a team a game. Looking at this year's team I would say that Dodd used the players he could last year in game situations and the rest got opportunities rarely based on the average margin of victory and lack of "blowout" games. or Maybe it is possible that they had much larger leads in a lot of their games and ended up winning by much smaller margins due to him playing his bench??

Answer your phone!!

Wow, a little defensive aren't we. I was just wondering why you decided to capitalize the entire name with different spelling as if to say it was spelled incorrectly. I've seen others do it in threads before. Belfry comes to mind off the top of my head because a lot of people spell it Belfrey in error rather than BELFRY. Relax, or is it RELACKS? (Just kidding around!!) BTW, if I wanted to be the "Spelling and Grammer Police", I could have a field day on this site and I am by no means a spelling or grammer expert.

Did you capitalize to emphasize what you believe to be the correct spelling of the school name?? If you are, you need to check again because Conner is the correct spelling.