I like the way you think, RedBlood, but you left out Holy Family and Booker T. Washington. If we're going to have an accurate Litkenhous rating, we want to be sure to include everyone...

 

Frances

 

 

Sorry about that....maybe I was showing my age, and maybe you showed yours But thats Ok, there are a lot of things that get better with age :thumb:

For the 16th Region ratings, don't leave out South Portsmouth, Greenup High School, Wurtland High School, Grayson Prichard, Carter City, Hitchens, Vanceburg, Tollesboro, Olive Hill, and Olive Hill Erie. Of course, this isn't including the days when Clark County was a part of the 16th and the Cardinals and Coach Letcher Norton often ruled the region.

 

As for the subject of the thread, since the game is at Ashland, Ashland will win. It has nothing to do with officiating but merely because the surroundings will be more friendly and familiar to Ashland. Nonetheless, it has been said for years that a team starts out 10 points behind when they play at Ashland. Therefore, AT41 should "revise" the pending wager to say that Ashland will win by more than 10 points or he loses the bet. Now that would seem to "level" the playing field.

 

Wow, maybe I opened a can of worms....That is some great research of teams there :thumb:

First of all, Im from Ashland, so I feel confident everywhere. And dont forget paranoia will desytroya!

:laugh: :laugh:

Now that is good :thumb:

 

I know! :lol: :thumb:

I think Fairview overcomes ?????? and wins this one.

 

I base this on several things, Ashland has no answer for Black. He is a 6'4" strong post player. This is the week spot for this particular Ashland team. Barker and Hutchinson can handle any pressure that Ashland applies and Black will have his way. If Fairview has the lead late it is curtains. The simply don't miss from the foul line.

 

I don't understand the overwhelming confidence that I sense from the Ashland posters on this board. I think the Tomcats are capable of winning this one but it will take their best effort. Fairview is for real they have size, quickness and are full of shooters.

I'm just curious - what makes you think that ?????? will be calling this game? Is this just a guess, or do you know for a fact that he has been assigned this game. For what it's worth, an assigning secretary doles out the games - it isn't like any school in the 16th gets to pick their refs (in Ohio, the school gets it's own officials). The system is set up this way for the express purpose of eliminating "homers".

 

In light of this, I would ask if you are making the assertion that ????? cheats when he calls at Ashland?

 

For my money, ????? is one of the most unshakable officials in the 16th Region. In my opinion, there are times when he let's too much go without being called, but it seems to me that he is consistent with it toward both teams. He is completely oblivious to the crowd, and he knows the rule book backwards and forwards.

 

Is he the greatest official to ever wear stripes in the 16th Region? No. Does he cheat for one team or another? No.

 

I would be willing to bet that he absolutely could not care less what color the jersey's are that either team is wearing. He used to coach baseball at Greenup County, and I would still trust him to be unbiased if my team were playing Greenup, at Greenup.

 

Basically, you may deem him inept if you wish, but he doesn't cheat. At least, not in my book.

 

Frances

I think Fairview overcomes ??????, I feel certain he will be officiating, and wins this one.

 

I base this on several things, Ashland has no answer for Black. He is a 6'4" strong post player. This is the week spot for this particular Ashland team. QUOTE]

 

Mmm, ever heard of Drew McDavid? Im pretty sure that HE will be all Mr. Black can handle, not the other way around. I would also venture a guess that Drew is a stronger post player, and a better all around basketball player than Black. On this I have no doubt. :thumb:

Posters of all loyalties can "cuss and discuss" all they want. All of us have an opinion. As for the assignment of referees, like anything else, I'm sure there is a little subjectivity in the process. Obviously, some referees are seen to be "more seasoned" than are others. It only makes sense that those referees get the more "demanding" assignments. Also, a now retired referee told me that a school can request that certain referees not be assigned to that school's home games. True or not, I don't know. However, it makes sense. My point is that assignments are probably not merely at random.

 

I think Rickyp's point was that ???? seems to referee a pretty high percentage of Ashland home games. Now that could be because ????? is seen as a top official and that Ashland games are seen by many as "high profile".

 

Personally, I believe that assignments should be at random because it removes the feeling, whether valid or not, that some officials have preferences as to assignments. I do feel certain that referees are human beings. Consequently, like the rest of us, they all have certain teams and coaches they like and certain teams and coaches they don't like. That is part of being human. Does it effect how they call a game? Probably a little for some and a little more for others. Maybe a call of a charge here and a block there.

 

I'm not insinuating that there is a blatant conspiracy to hurt certain schools for the benefit of others. I am saying that, since referees are human, they are not perfect and they are not completely unbiased. That is no indictment. It is merely, I believe, reality.

 

Finally, regardless of what may be said about AT41, no one can doubt his unwavering loyalty to his team, Ian Holbrook, and now to Drew McDavid. I am somewhat disappointed that he seems to have dropped his favorite from last year, Matt Thomas. Personally, I'll take Matt over McDavid any time.

Hey AT, you need to make up a new conspiracy theory poster that features you and Frances. I never said the refree in question cheats. I will say that it seems he officiates a large number of Ashland games. Like scooterbob stated maybe it is because he gets the "high profile games" and Ashland is involved in a lot of those.

 

Frances, are you sure he now the rule book "backwards and forwards" or is that just a guess?

 

AT, I will give you that McDavid is better overall than Black but not in the post. Black is 2 inches taller and has a bigger body. McDavid is an excellent player but he nor can any of his teammates handle Black in the post and if Ashland has to double down or play zone Fairview has several good outside shooters. On the other hand I think Thomas is a tough matchup for Fairview. But so far this year Ashland has struggled against teams with a good post presence.

 

These veiws are just my opinion, I have no hard evidence to back them up.

... Also, a now retired referee told me that a school can request that certain referees not be assigned to that school's home games. ....

 

That is definitely true - a school can (or at least, it used to be able to) "blackball" as many as three officials, precluding them from calling any of there games - home or away. By the same token, an official was able to "blackball" up to three schools, effectively refusing assignments to any of their games.

 

I'm not sure if this is still true, but it was at one time.

 

Frances

The paranoia about officials is a little too much, Do they miss some calls? yes, but they usually miss them on both ends, I have seen very few games that the official actually decides the outcome, and that is how it should be. I have seen a lot of missed calls by officials at all levels, its called Human Error, look how many calls are reversed with instant replay at the professional level. The angle can always make something look a little different, but on average, our 16th officials do as good a job as officials anywhere else in the state. If there was truly a conspiracy with officials, Ashland would have been in the finals of the ait instead of getting beat.

Lets keep it real

Frances, are you sure he now the rule book "backwards and forwards" or is that just a guess?

 

A fair question. Let me answer it this way. In Major League Baseball, Charlie Reliford is definitely considered one of the best "rules" men that wears blue. He is held in extremely high esteem by the other umpires, the league offices, and the managers that run the teams.

 

Within the 16th Region, Kouns would be regarded in much the same manner. That is not to say that everyone likes the way he calls, or that everyone thinks he has great judgement. There aren't many that know the rules of Kentucky high school basketball that would consider themselves his better - at least in that aspect of officiating. I'm sure that you can find someone that would disagree, but I'd take Kouns in a head to head matchup in a rules test, and I'd win a WHOLE lot more than I'd lose.

 

So - to sum up - no, it isn't a guess. It's based on conversations with him, watching him call, talking to others that also know the rules, and those that call games with him.

 

As for the "Conspiracy Theory", you might want to re-read my response to your post. I did not say that you were accusing anyone of cheating - I ASKED if that was what you were trying to imply.

 

If your initial post had been clearer, I probably would not have had to ask. Then again, the ambiguity could have been intentional.

 

 

Frances

The paranoia about officials is a little too much, Do they miss some calls? yes, but they usually miss them on both ends, I have seen very few games that the official actually decides the outcome, and that is how it should be. I have seen a lot of missed calls by officials at all levels, its called Human Error, look how many calls are reversed with instant replay at the professional level. The angle can always make something look a little different, but on average, our 16th officials do as good a job as officials anywhere else in the state. If there was truly a conspiracy with officials, Ashland would have been in the finals of the ait instead of getting beat.

Lets keep it real

 

I couldn't agree more. The VAST majority of officials are hardworking individuals with great integrity.

 

Of course, it's easier to claim that an official "homers" for someone than it is to admit that your teams gets beaten.

 

Frances

I have no problem with ????? calling any game my team is playing, I have seen him miss calls and after the game asked him about it, he was man enough to admit he just "missed it", I respect that, because that is the human error factor I was referring too, the fact that he can admit it, attests to his honesty and sincerity of trying to get it right, I can also honestly say I havnt questioned a lot of his calls, he usually gets it right on the front end which is all you can ask.

I have no problem with ??????? calling any game my team is playing, I have seen him miss calls and after the game asked him about it, he was man enough to admit he just "missed it", I respect that, because that is the human error factor I was referring too, the fact that he can admit it, attests to his honesty and sincerity of trying to get it right, I can also honestly say I havnt questioned a lot of his calls, he usually gets it right on the front end which is all you can ask.

 

I agree. That beats the heck out of an official that calls for ten years, and swears up and down that he's never missed a call.

 

Frances