I really don't think you are aware of what a Paramedic is. A Paramedic can, and does, perform procedures and assessments that no other health care provided can perform, except a doctor. A Paramedic has, on the average, over 1500 clock hours of education in medical management and emergency care. An Athletic Trainer is no where near the level of care as a paramedic. Not close even.

 

With that said, I still would like to see both an Athletic Trainer and a Paramedic staffed ambulance at every game. Even with the level of care of a Paramedic, the Trainers do a specific set of training regiments over the long term for more minor injuries.

 

Exactly.

 

I know exactly what a paramedic is.

 

Lets go back to concussions which is the main topic of the thread. If I had a choice of an athletic trainer, paramedic or a nurse to evaluate my child for a concussion I still would choose an athletic trainer.

We should not be debating ATC vs EMT-P.

 

My fault. I'll send myself a warning PM to stay on topic.

My fault. I'll send myself a warning PM to stay on topic.

 

Don't misunderstand what I was saying. It is good discussion because most do not u derstand what either do. My point is that even though paramedics have the qualifications it is simply is not their focus. Schools need a dedicated professional which is where the ATC fits.

KY passed a bill today that said middle school and high school coaches have to be trained on how to identify and treat concussions.

 

http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/Lawmakers_to_consider_concussion_bill_138386504.html

 

Is this realistic? Let's say Junior gets what the old-timers call "his bell rung" on Friday night in the 4th quarter of a tight game. Are coaches going to stop coaching while they pull out their instruction manual to run tests they once learned about? Seems like that is far-fetched.

I've never heard of a doctor diagnosing one without ordering an MRI.

 

Then you haven't been around many doctors.

It's amazing that athletic organizations like NFL teams, NCAA college programs, NBA teams etc. "settle" for daily care from certified athletic trainers.

Then you haven't been around many doctors.

 

 

Probably not. Just going by my own experience with an ACL tear and that of eight student athletes I know, including a cheerleader that was just diagnosed last week after an MRI.

Clyde, it seems as though the kid in the story was at a school with a Certified A.T. Do you know of any statistics that show any correlation between AT's on site and healthier athletes? I assume that the two go hand and hand, but it may not necessarily be the case.

 

I'm still interested in these statistics, if anyone has them. I would say if there is a positive correlation between fewer injuries, fewer serious injuries or fewer deaths and the presence of an ATC, then those statistics should be out there and would make a strong case for having an ATC on staff.

 

AllTell, do you know of any such statisitics?

AllTell, do you know of any such statisitics?

 

I have none. I don't think an ATC reduces injuries for the most part.

 

To me it's more of an insurance policy. I watched a documentary last year about football in Arkansas. Two big boys from different schools collapsed within a day of each other in the extreme heat. One ended up dying. The other didn't. The difference was that the one that did not had an ATC onsite that knew how to immediately cool him off . The other school did not and due to its location had to wait about 15 or 20 minutes for the EMTs to show up. No one reduced his body temperate and the child ended up dying a few days later.

 

That's why it seems so obvious that every school should have one and make cuts , if necessary, elsewhere to ensure the child's safety.

They do diagnose, based on assessment. But, the only way for a Trainer, or nurse, or paramedic, or doctor, to diagnose with 100% accuracy a torn ligament, is with a MRI. Just like, a fracture can be diagnosed by exam, but to really know the extent of the injury you must have a X-Ray.

 

Assessment based management is common and needed, but some diagnoses requires study, be it X-Ray, lab values, or other form.

 

Exactly. That's why I'm not so willing to dismiss a nurse's abilities as opposed to an athletic trainer's in this arena. This sounds like I'm dismissing athletic trainers' training and abilities, but that's not the case. Simply that I think memyselfandi is unfairly dismissing the level of education and training a nurse has to achieve as opposed to an athletic trainer in terms of diagnosis.

I have none. I don't think an ATC reduces injuries for the most part.

 

To me it's more of an insurance policy. I watched a documentary last year about football in Arkansas. Two big boys from different schools collapsed within a day of each other in the extreme heat. One ended up dying. The other didn't. The difference was that the one that did not had an ATC onsite that knew how to immediately cool him off . The other school did not and due to its location had to wait about 15 or 20 minutes for the EMTs to show up. No one reduced his body temperate and the child ended up dying a few days later.

 

That's why it seems so obvious that every school should have one and make cuts , if necessary, elsewhere to ensure the child's safety.

 

Exactly.

Exactly.

 

I also agree with Clyde, although the KHSAA has recently required all coaches, including asst coaches, to take classes that cover, amongst other topics, dealing with heat related injuries. In Ky at least there is no reason why a kid suffering a heat related injury would need to wait until medical personnel arrived on the scene to start receiving treatment to reduce his body temperature. The coaches should know how to immediately provide treatment. The program was put together by the Ky Medical Association. If the incident at PRP had any silver lining it's that coaches now take heat related injuries more seriously.

AllTell, do you know of any such statisitics?

 

Nothing formal. Just anecdotal.

 

I'm like Clyde, I don't believe that an ATC will reduce numbers of injuries, they will handle them better, recognize them when they happen and make the return to activity quicker and SAFER. Coaches are watching the practice for other things. Athletic Trainers watch with injuries in mind. They are better trained then ANY OTHER MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL to handle those injuries on the field. Using any other professional in this/her capacity is just a feel good measure that is equivalent to putting a Band-Aid on an amputated leg.

 

There has been some discussion here on an ATCs role in preventing heat problems. First let me say that I believe the guidelines KY follows are Draconian. Second, there are coaches that are STUPID enough, in light of the PRP incident, to argue with an ATC regarding activity limitations mandated by the Heat Index mandates.

I also agree with Clyde, although the KHSAA has recently required all coaches, including asst coaches, to take classes that cover, amongst other topics, dealing with heat related injuries. In Ky at least there is no reason why a kid suffering a heat related injury would need to wait until medical personnel arrived on the scene to start receiving treatment to reduce his body temperature. The coaches should know how to immediately provide treatment. The program was put together by the Ky Medical Association. If the incident at PRP had any silver lining it's that coaches now take heat related injuries more seriously.

 

It's always good to educate coaches. However, even within the guidelines athletes can have heat issues. That's why you need someone there whose sole job it is to watch for this and to treat it properly.

Thought some of you may find this story interesting. It is a video you can watch directly on the website:

 

High school football has never had a higher profile, with nationally televised games, corporate sponsorships, and minute-by-minute coverage on sports websites. In northwest Arkansas, FRONTLINE examines one ambitious high school team working its way towards national renown. With a superstar quarterback at the helm, tiny Shiloh Christian is striving to join the ranks of the country’s best high school teams—teams whose workout schedules, practices, and styles of play increasingly imitate the pros. But as high school players grow bigger, faster, and stronger, there are growing concerns about the health and safety of these young players, with rising rates of concussions and death from heat stroke.