Which circles back to the LeBron leaving Cleveland to join forces with DWade. Chicago sucked when MJ got there. He built it. LeBron almost got the whole building built in Cleveland and left right before the final floor was put in. Regardless of what Kobe has said or done he stayed with the Lakers and won 2 more titles there when they added Gasol. Had LeBron been drafted to San Antonio then Kobe wouldn't have 5 rings for sure but players greatness is based on real circumstances and not imaginary ones.

That was 80s style basketball. That sounds like something Jordan, Bird or Barkley would have said. Is Bird a tool? Because the things he said in his career were similar to what LBJ said, it was just always on the floor, in the lockerroom, or not as publicized because the media wasn't what it is today.

 

From what I've heard about Bird, yes, it sounds like he's a giant tool. I like Barkley because he's hysterical, and Jordan was simply a jerk.

That was 80s style basketball. That sounds like something Jordan, Bird or Barkley would have said. Is Bird a tool? Because the things he said in his career were similar to what LBJ said, it was just always on the floor, in the lockerroom, or not as publicized because the media wasn't what it is today.

 

 

I agree. Those guys were the greatest trash talkers ever.

Durant went to Texas. He never learned how to win. Rose is taking losing on a big stage in crunch time to a new level.

 

DRose is dead at the end of games. He is the new LeBron, the Bulls the new Cavs. If he gets another real player on his roster that can score, he'll be much better in the crunch IMO. Watch LeBron and Dirk in the Finals. They will pick their spots, they will go stretches where they're not as aggressive (unless they're on fire) because they want to save for the last 10 minutes. They'll get aggressive during quarters 2 and 3 when the team needs it, LBJ did a great job of that in the Bulls series, he just wanted to keep it within 7 or 8 points and if the lead got larger he would go and make a play. Game four was a great example of that.

 

Rose will get it. If I'm them I make an offer to Orlando offering whatever the Magic want for Howard. The Magic don't have to trade Howard to the Lakers, and could he really turn down an extension from the Bulls to play with the Lakers who will have an aging Kobe and a horrible cap situation going into tougher restrictions in the new CBA? Does he really want to play for Mike Brown over Thibs?

DRose is dead at the end of games. He is the new LeBron, the Bulls the new Cavs. If he gets another real player on his roster that can score, he'll be much better in the crunch IMO. Watch LeBron and Dirk in the Finals. They will pick their spots, they will go stretches where they're not as aggressive (unless they're on fire) because they want to save for the last 10 minutes. They'll get aggressive during quarters 2 and 3 when the team needs it, LBJ did a great job of that in the Bulls series, he just wanted to keep it within 7 or 8 points and if the lead got larger he would go and make a play. Game four was a great example of that.

 

Rose will get it. If I'm them I make an offer to Orlando offering whatever the Magic want for Howard. The Magic don't have to trade Howard to the Lakers, and could he really turn down an extension from the Bulls to play with the Lakers who will have an aging Kobe and a horrible cap situation going into tougher restrictions in the new CBA? Does he really want to play for Mike Brown over Thibs?

 

Would Orlando pull the trigger on a Noah & Deng for Howard deal?

Welll, Scottie Pippen is apparently throwing him in the discussion even before he gets a 'ship. What I've always said is that I don't think LeBron doesn't need as many titles as Kobe to be considered the better player, and I think if he gets close to Jordan the comparison could be fair depending on how LeBron's career turns out.

 

I wish somebody would ask Scottie Pippen what it means to be "potenent offensively". :lol:

Jordan groomed Pippen, not the other way around. Russell lead his teams from day one.

 

Magic is the fair comparison for Kobe because they both came in with top 5, ego maniac centers. Both learned on the job and ended up being remembered as the better player in comparison to their older counterpart.

 

If you're comparing Kobe with Jordan or LeBron, Shaq has to be brough up he has to be. Either one of those two guys win championships with Shaq if they come in in Kobe's situation. It has to be brought up, its an advantage neither LeBron nor Jordan had. Both of them had to endure 7 seasons of heartache before they were able to get to the top, if LBJ can win a ring this year. Kobe won in year 3? If LeBron got drafted to the Spurs in 2003, how many titles does he have now? It has to be mentioned when comparing them. There is no way around it. That's not a slight to Kobe, it is a fact. Deep down you know that PP.

 

That's one difference...other than Magic, all of the other guys were clearly viewed as the best player. Kobe was not viewed as better than Shaq during the first three titles. The same could be said of Magic, however, he picked up the slack for an injured Kareem and posted arguable the greatest single game performance in NBA Finals history to lead LA to a title, so he established himself with that in a way that Kobe never did, IMO.

Why don't the Magic want to trade Howard to the Lakers?

I think LeBron going to DWade puts him even further behind Kobe in the debate. Kobe couldn't help that he got placed with Shaq, much like Jordan and Pippen couldn't help it. DWade won pretty much on his own. LeBron CHOSE to team up with another superstar. Not the other way around.

 

If the Lakers didn't get Pau Gasol given to them, Kobe would have been the first guy to pull a LeBron. Fact. The Lakers were given Pau, the best deal the Cavs got was Antawn Jamison or Mo Williams.

 

Which circles back to the LeBron leaving Cleveland to join forces with DWade. Chicago sucked when MJ got there. He built it. LeBron almost got the whole building built in Cleveland and left right before the final floor was put in. Regardless of what Kobe has said or done he stayed with the Lakers and won 2 more titles there when they added Gasol. Had LeBron been drafted to San Antonio then Kobe wouldn't have 5 rings for sure but players greatness is based on real circumstances and not imaginary ones.

 

There was no more building to be had. The Cavs had no cap room, they were never going to be bad enough to get a good draft pick, and no free agent or free agent to be wanted to go there. Amare took a paycut to not go there. And like I said above, had Gasol not have came to LA Kobe would be in a Bulls uniform right now. He demanded a trade before that complaining about his teammates, something LeBron never did.

 

Sure he left to create a super team. I hate that, I hated it then, I hate it now. As the longest tenured LBJ fan not from Akron, I would have preferred he stayed in Cleveland and clawed his way to one or two titles. But, I can't fault hiim for leaving. The Heat are set up for the long-term going forward. He seems happy, he has teammates that can carry the team for stretches of the game and allow him to be fresh at the end. Short term his legacy took a hit, but even that has already went away. He's now being looked at as a guy that could close a game, something I've seen from him all along.

 

Its easy to say he left and it was wrong, but no other great was put in the situation he was put in in Cleveland. Jordan played in a huge market, got to play for Phil Jackson, and the Bulls stole Pippen in the draft, and the Bulls new how to build a roster around their players. Kobe went to LA, as did Magic, they're either the best organization in basketball or right behind Boston at number 2. Bird went to the Celtics who at that time always won, and he played with a ton of Hall of Famers. None of their situations dictated they leave for their legacy. If the shoe was on the other foot what would they have done? We know what Kobe wanted to do.

I think LeBron going to DWade puts him even further behind Kobe in the debate. Kobe couldn't help that he got placed with Shaq, much like Jordan and Pippen couldn't help it. DWade won pretty much on his own. LeBron CHOSE to team up with another superstar. Not the other way around.

 

He got plenty of help from the Angel of Stern.

Why don't the Magic want to trade Howard to the Lakers?

 

Who said that?

Who said that?

 

I misread what Cats said. Never mind.

Would Orlando pull the trigger on a Noah & Deng for Howard deal?

 

It wouldn't have to be just them. It wouldn't have to be them. Bulls could throw together something together they have some young talent. Also they can put together a package involving other teams because how how many young guys or older guys they have. Plenty of teams would get in on the action to get a guy like Asik or Gibson if they could get rid of a guy that no longer fits their team. They have alot more flexibility than LA does. Other than Kobe, Bynum or Gasol how many teams want anyone else on that team? Odom maybe, but who has a need for him and his contract, mixed with the fact he is getting older? Everyone else on their team is about as valuable in a trade as me or you would be. Who wants Fisher, or Blake, or Barnes?

 

Why don't the Magic want to trade Howard to the Lakers?

 

If they can get a better deal elsewhere, why wouldn't they take it. If they can get a similar deal from someone else why wouldn't they take it to stick it to Howard?

DRose is dead at the end of games. He is the new LeBron, the Bulls the new Cavs. If he gets another real player on his roster that can score, he'll be much better in the crunch IMO. Watch LeBron and Dirk in the Finals. They will pick their spots, they will go stretches where they're not as aggressive (unless they're on fire) because they want to save for the last 10 minutes. They'll get aggressive during quarters 2 and 3 when the team needs it, LBJ did a great job of that in the Bulls series, he just wanted to keep it within 7 or 8 points and if the lead got larger he would go and make a play. Game four was a great example of that.

 

Rose will get it. If I'm them I make an offer to Orlando offering whatever the Magic want for Howard. The Magic don't have to trade Howard to the Lakers, and could he really turn down an extension from the Bulls to play with the Lakers who will have an aging Kobe and a horrible cap situation going into tougher restrictions in the new CBA? Does he really want to play for Mike Brown over Thibs?

 

Rose needs to get in the gym and work on his jumper. He just isn't as good a shooter as the other upper echelon guys. His game right now is more about getting to the rim than the pull up J. That makes it tough at the end of games because when they flatten it out or try to spread the court for him it forces him to shoot the jumper. Chicago should have run more offense and picks at the end of games and let Rose do what he does best ... quickness and be creative.

Rose needs to get in the gym and work on his jumper. He just isn't as good a shooter as the other upper echelon guys. His game right now is more about getting to the rim than the pull up J. That makes it tough at the end of games because when they flatten it out or try to spread the court for him it forces him to shoot the jumper. Chicago should have run more offense and picks at the end of games and let Rose do what he does best ... quickness and be creative.

 

:thumb: I agree. The thing for him is that he has really improved shooter-wise, so he could continue to get better and better in that regard.