(Have you talked to Carson (who also recently became a father for the third time) about his situation with the Bengals?)

 

We talk but it’s about the babies and stuff. I really haven’t talked to him about that. We text back and forth checking on the kids and that’s about it.

 

It’s one of those things where I have my own selfish motives and I’d love to have him back but that’s one of those decisions where Carson wouldn’t speak out unless it was something he was serious about. He’s not the kind of guy to bring this up and just throw it out there as a bargaining tool. He’s serious. It’s one of those deals where I’ll let him have his feelings and I’ve told him that if he ever wants to talk to me about it I’d love to but you have to let him make his own decisions about what is best for him and his family. That’s what you want.

 

At the end of the day, if he doesn’t want to be here you don’t want a guy that doesn’t want to be here. You want him to do what he is comfortable doing and you want the Brown family to do what they are comfortable with so it’s something I don’t feel everybody else needs to pull and tug on. That’s their own personal decisions and they will need to make them.

 

(Were you surprised by Carson doing this?)

 

No, not really. I knew he was really frustrated and knew it had been a tough year for him. It had to be. He took a lot of blame for a lot of things that probably weren’t his (fault) and things that for sure weren’t his fault. That’s the nature of a quarterback but I think in a year in which he was so excited about the potential of our team and for everything to go so badly was tough on him.

 

Then it didn’t help that there were – and you say Cincinnati fans but the people who do stuff like they did to him aren’t real fans. You’ve got your real fans that will love and support you no matter what but having stuff thrown in his yard and stuff like that, just stuff that is uncalled for. There is stuff like that I’m sure hurt him and put him in a place where he’s not just hurt but worried about his family and people coming to his house. You worry about all that for him but in the end I can feel his frustrations so I wasn’t exactly surprised but I was concerned.

 

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/2011/02/18/whitworth-discusses-labor-mediation-carson/

I think a lot of people really need to pay attention to the bolded part. This is something we heard from coaches and players during the season, and now still after the season. Which is how there was a lot more reasons for what led to Palmers struggles, than just what an average fan would see. Which I am sure Cats will say just another excuse, and ignore how basically everyone who actually breaks down the tapes say otherwise.

 

It was also interesting to hear Whit also talk about the whole people doing stuff to Carson's yard. So as been mentioned the whole thing with Palmers family, and stuff like that probably is another reason for him wanting to leave.

Yeah an article wrote by someone who is obviously a pretty close friend really makes me change my mind. Not this crap again!!!!!

Yeah an article wrote by someone who is obviously a pretty close friend really makes me change my mind. Not this crap again!!!!!

 

No its you once again ignoring facts from people who actually watch the tapes, know how the plays are suppose to go and all that. How many game tapes have you watched of them? How many times have you known how the actual play was suppose to go, or where the people were suppose to be at. This is something people who actually do know these things like the players and coaches said during the whole season. They are still saying these same things. You can say well their just protecting their players, or teammates. Well have never heard anyone back up Chad, or go defend either him or TO or people like that. Shoot we have had even people not in the organization anymore like TJ, who is friends with Chad. Say that a lot of it was not on Chad. Do you not see how stupid it sounds when you always say its just excuses, when apparently if all these people are saying it. Then it probably is more than just an excuse as you say. Shoot I think one of the most telling things so far, has been how TO really has not even said anything bad about Palmer so far. He has no problems in the past saying things if the QB was to blame. Yet the only people he blamed this year was the owners and coaches. So even a guy who is known to say stuff about QB's, has not said really anything about it being on Palmer.

 

Which by the way, I knew you would post. Even though we have heard you say many times you were done for good talking about Palmer.

I think it's very interesting that everyone including current Bengals, past Bengals, TV analysts that are around the Bengals every day, and "experts" from ESPN and other networks say some of Carson's problems aren't his fault. It's unanimous to everyone that watches this stuff and evaluates it that some of it can be blamed on receivers, yet CCC, mal, and a few others on here know better than all of those people. Here's the list of people not blaiming receivers: fans on message boards, and Mo Egger. Here's a list of people saying Palmer takes blame for things that aren't his fault: Marvin, Whit, Lapham, TJ Housh, many people paid by TV stations to watch tape, other former and current players that I'm not going to list individually and some fans.

No its you once again ignoring facts from people who actually watch the tapes, know how the plays are suppose to go and all that. How many game tapes have you watched of them? How many times have you known how the actual play was suppose to go, or where the people were suppose to be at. This is something people who actually do know these things like the players and coaches said during the whole season. They are still saying these same things. You can say well their just protecting their players, or teammates. Well have never heard anyone back up Chad, or go defend either him or TO or people like that. Shoot we have had even people not in the organization anymore like TJ, who is friends with Chad. Say that a lot of it was not on Chad. Do you not see how stupid it sounds when you always say its just excuses, when apparently if all these people are saying it. Then it probably is more than just an excuse as you say. Shoot I think one of the most telling things so far, has been how TO really has not even said anything bad about Palmer so far. He has no problems in the past saying things if the QB was to blame. Yet the only people he blamed this year was the owners and coaches. So even a guy who is known to say stuff about QB's, has not said really anything about it being on Palmer.

 

Which by the way, I knew you would post. Even though we have heard you say many times you were done for good talking about Palmer.

 

All I"m going to respond to is the bolded. I don't think that would be that hard with coaching tape to know what was going on alot of the time. It's pass patterns, not brain surgery. Hot routes, sight adjustments, tags and the way NFL defenses disguise coverage and play combo coverages would make it difficult, but it could be done especially if it were one's job.

 

I only posted for two reasons :lol:. One you brought me into this thread, which I think may actually be against the rules, but I could be wrong there. And two you get so tore up about it.

All I"m going to respond to is the bolded. I don't think that would be that hard with coaching tape to know what was going on alot of the time. It's pass patterns, not brain surgery. Hot routes, sight adjustments, tags and the way NFL defenses disguise coverage and play combo coverages would make it difficult, but it could be done especially if it were one's job.

 

I only posted for two reasons :lol:. One you brought me into this thread, which I think may actually be against the rules, but I could be wrong there. And two you get so tore up about it.

 

So have you watched the game tape on it then, to form your opinion that the people who have watched it are wrong? Also there has been many of times where you have brought my name up more than once in threads, especially concerning Palmer. So if that is a rule, then we both have broken it when it comes to this subject. I am not tore up about it though since I am right, I feel like you just argue it because you have put so much time into this discussion. That you just choose to ignore the very obvious things about it. I have seen your post in other topics, and usually you are very reasonable when it comes to things, especially when people bring in facts to the discussion. However when it comes to that about Palmer, you choose to ignore it. Would be better to admit maybe you were wrong, or just not reply back. So seems like maybe your the one who gets tore up about it when people present things that are true about it.

I think it's very interesting that everyone including current Bengals, past Bengals, TV analysts that are around the Bengals every day, and "experts" from ESPN and other networks say some of Carson's problems aren't his fault. It's unanimous to everyone that watches this stuff and evaluates it that some of it can be blamed on receivers, yet CCC, mal, and a few others on here know better than all of those people. Here's the list of people not blaiming receivers: fans on message boards, and Mo Egger. Here's a list of people saying Palmer takes blame for things that aren't his fault: Marvin, Whit, Lapham, TJ Housh, many people paid by TV stations to watch tape, other former and current players that I'm not going to list individually and some fans.

 

Its because what they think is true, didn't you know that. And what all these other people have seen from watching tape, are just making excuses. For some reason these people think guys are just trying to protect Palmer by not putting it on him. However in todays sports world, when someone is bad people say it. So why wouldn't people say how it is on him. When other QB's struggle, people who watch the tape will say that. However that is not said about Palmer, and that is probably because there is a lot of things for why he didn't look great. I don't know how people don't see that. Then think we could get another QB in here who could do better.

So have you watched the game tape on it then, to form your opinion that the people who have watched it are wrong? Also there has been many of times where you have brought my name up more than once in threads, especially concerning Palmer. So if that is a rule, then we both have broken it when it comes to this subject. I am not tore up about it though since I am right, I feel like you just argue it because you have put so much time into this discussion. That you just choose to ignore the very obvious things about it. I have seen your post in other topics, and usually you are very reasonable when it comes to things, especially when people bring in facts to the discussion. However when it comes to that about Palmer, you choose to ignore it. Would be better to admit maybe you were wrong, or just not reply back. So seems like maybe your the one who gets tore up about it when people present things that are true about it.

 

I'm not going to talk about Palmer anymore because this is getting pathetic. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, but I'd love to sit down with someone and watch some tape and have them show me what they're talking about. Are you volunteering for that? Even after his horrible season this year, you just refuse to see that he more than likely sucks now. I don't get tore up about it, I think the whole thing is stupid and pathetic, mainly pathetic. Some times you just have to admit your boy just ain't what you thought he was. I'm a huge LeBron fan but after this summer I had to admit that he is a classless jerk and about as competitive as a newborn kitten. He was pathetic this year, especially at the end of games.

 

I'm not ignoring anything, I just get tired of you tirelessly searching the internet for defense of Palmer. I bet you could also find a bunch of people who'd be trashing him. I don't expect the Bengals to trash him, or other NFL players to trash him, it's just not what alot of them do. Maybe TO hasn't said anything because he's old and needs a job, he's not exactly a wanted commodity these days, and has been relatively tame the last two years. Playing in Buffalo and Cincy will do that to a player.

 

And have I made a thread that brought you into it? I must be forgetting that but I am a forgetful person.

This article breaks down Carson Palmer nicely: Palmer's Trade Value

 

He has thrown to a much worse collection of receivers in his career, with no better of a running game and the same offensive coordinator with much better results befpre than in the last 3 seasons. No logical person could possibly think that Palmer is the same quarterback that he was from 2004-07.

This article breaks down Carson Palmer nicely: Palmer's Trade Value

 

He has thrown to a much worse collection of receivers in his career, with no better of a running game and the same offensive coordinator with much better results befpre than in the last 3 seasons. No logical person could possibly think that Palmer is the same quarterback that he was from 2004-07.

 

I don't think anyone is saying he is as good as he was in 04-07.

I'm not going to talk about Palmer anymore because this is getting pathetic. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, but I'd love to sit down with someone and watch some tape and have them show me what they're talking about. Are you volunteering for that? Even after his horrible season this year, you just refuse to see that he more than likely sucks now. I don't get tore up about it, I think the whole thing is stupid and pathetic, mainly pathetic. Some times you just have to admit your boy just ain't what you thought he was. I'm a huge LeBron fan but after this summer I had to admit that he is a classless jerk and about as competitive as a newborn kitten. He was pathetic this year, especially at the end of games.

 

I'm not ignoring anything, I just get tired of you tirelessly searching the internet for defense of Palmer. I bet you could also find a bunch of people who'd be trashing him. I don't expect the Bengals to trash him, or other NFL players to trash him, it's just not what alot of them do. Maybe TO hasn't said anything because he's old and needs a job, he's not exactly a wanted commodity these days, and has been relatively tame the last two years. Playing in Buffalo and Cincy will do that to a player.

 

And have I made a thread that brought you into it? I must be forgetting that but I am a forgetful person.

 

This is why your impossible to talk to on this subject. Once again you say its time for me to admit I was wrong about Palmer, have I not a few times admitted I was wrong and how I also lost our bet? Also bringing someone up in a thread, is bringing someone up in a thread. It doesn't matter if it is in the first post or not.

 

You talk about players or NFL analysis not willing to put someone down, or say someone is not good. Where have you been? These guys and players have no problem a lot of times, saying when someone is struggling. Never really seen this many people come out to defend someone, unless there is a reason for it. Usually if someone is struggling people say that, or they just won't say anything on the subject. Yet a lot of people have come out to say that a lot of the problems was not Palmer. Why is Palmer so special for people to do that, but not for a lot of other people? Unless there is a reason for it. Also I would love for someone to sit down with you and show you this too. I could understand if you don't believe me on that. However its just funny how you choose not to believe all the many of people who have watched the tapes, and also say a lot if was not on Palmer.

This article breaks down Carson Palmer nicely: Palmer's Trade Value

 

He has thrown to a much worse collection of receivers in his career, with no better of a running game and the same offensive coordinator with much better results befpre than in the last 3 seasons. No logical person could possibly think that Palmer is the same quarterback that he was from 2004-07.

 

The bigger difference is starting 3 college free agents on the offensive line, with 1 aging veteran, and 1 average tackle.

I'm not going to talk about Palmer anymore because this is getting pathetic. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, but I'd love to sit down with someone and watch some tape and have them show me what they're talking about. Are you volunteering for that? Even after his horrible season this year, you just refuse to see that he more than likely sucks now. I don't get tore up about it, I think the whole thing is stupid and pathetic, mainly pathetic. Some times you just have to admit your boy just ain't what you thought he was. I'm a huge LeBron fan but after this summer I had to admit that he is a classless jerk and about as competitive as a newborn kitten. He was pathetic this year, especially at the end of games.

 

I'm not ignoring anything, I just get tired of you tirelessly searching the internet for defense of Palmer. I bet you could also find a bunch of people who'd be trashing him. I don't expect the Bengals to trash him, or other NFL players to trash him, it's just not what alot of them do. Maybe TO hasn't said anything because he's old and needs a job, he's not exactly a wanted commodity these days, and has been relatively tame the last two years. Playing in Buffalo and Cincy will do that to a player.

 

And have I made a thread that brought you into it? I must be forgetting that but I am a forgetful person.

 

I'd be glad to sit and watch tape; it is not rocket science, but how many people take the time to see who was in Carson's face or what was at his feet not allowing him to step up into his throw; it is also not hard to see him talking to TO or Chad on the sideline trying to figure out what the heck they were doing or seeing.

 

It is so much easier to be lazy and say "Carson sucks."

 

Of course Carson made some poor throws, every QB does (did anyone see Manning this year when his o-line broke down??? or Brady vs. Jets when his receivers weren't open????????), but he wasn't nearly to blame as most want to make him out to be.

This is why your impossible to talk to on this subject. Once again you say its time for me to admit I was wrong about Palmer, have I not a few times admitted I was wrong and how I also lost our bet? Also bringing someone up in a thread, is bringing someone up in a thread. It doesn't matter if it is in the first post or not.

 

You talk about players or NFL analysis not willing to put someone down, or say someone is not good. Where have you been? These guys and players have no problem a lot of times, saying when someone is struggling. Never really seen this many people come out to defend someone, unless there is a reason for it. Usually if someone is struggling people say that, or they just won't say anything on the subject. Yet a lot of people have come out to say that a lot of the problems was not Palmer. Why is Palmer so special for people to do that, but not for a lot of other people? Unless there is a reason for it. Also I would love for someone to sit down with you and show you this too. I could understand if you don't believe me on that. However its just funny how you choose not to believe all the many of people who have watched the tapes, and also say a lot if was not on Palmer.

 

I'm sure it happens more that we know. Remember we live close to the Bengals so naturally it's going to seem like there is more chatter about them.

 

And I don't see why you get so mad :lol:. Especially considering that I openly admit I do this crap to get a rise out of you and SSC.