This is his third season of playing at a high level and he seems to be getting better. How many more good games will it take?

 

There is no answer to that question. I think Aaron Rodgers may very well be the best QB and best player in the league, but he will never get widespread credit for it without a ring. Look at Drew Brees. He was suddenly placed in the Brady and Manning class after last season. Did that ring make him a better player?

 

You can argue best player in the league stuff, but it is ridiculous to claim anyone other than Rodgers is Green Bay's best player. And, FWIW, best player and best QB are one in the same for me. I understand that isn't the case with everyone.

 

You can argue best player in the league stuff, but it is ridiculous to claim anyone other than Rodgers is Green Bay's best player. And, FWIW, best player and best QB are one in the same for me. I understand that isn't the case with everyone.

QBs are almost like pitchers in baseball since they always touch the ball. They almost have to be judged totally separately due to the unique nature of the position.

QBs are almost like pitchers in baseball since they always touch the ball. They almost have to be judged totally separately due to the unique nature of the position.

 

How can you possibly ignore the effect of the running game, the pass protection, the ability of the receivers to get open, and the ability of the defense to get the ball back to the offense and keep the team in the game?????????

 

That is why football is THE TRUE TEAM SPORT!

How can you possibly ignore the effect of the running game, the pass protection, the ability of the receivers to get open, and the ability of the defense to get the ball back to the offense and keep the team in the game?????????

 

That is why football is THE TRUE TEAM SPORT!

I don't ignore it, but it is the reality of the situation and how almost everyone evaluates players -- or in this case QBs.

The reality is football is a team sport, no matter how someone tries to oversimplify it.

This is his third season of playing at a high level and he seems to be getting better. How many more good games will it take?

 

There is no answer to that question. I think Aaron Rodgers may very well be the best QB and best player in the league, but he will never get widespread credit for it without a ring. Look at Drew Brees. He was suddenly placed in the Brady and Manning class after last season. Did that ring make him a better player?

 

You can argue best player in the league stuff, but it is ridiculous to claim anyone other than Rodgers is Green Bay's best player. And, FWIW, best player and best QB are one in the same for me. I understand that isn't the case with everyone.

 

 

I guess to me, the ring didn't make him a better player, but rather confirmed that he should be held up there with the best. His numbers were always excellent, now he has the prize to go with it, and no matter what winning the prize makes all the difference in the world. It's the difference between being Dan Fouts - great numbers, fun to watch, no prize and Phil Sims - not especially athletic, not as much fun to watch, good but not great numbers, but he has the prize. I'll take the winner - Phil. Lots of guys have looked good and put up numbers and gotten close, but almost all of them are now forgotten. If you want to be included in The Best conversation, you need to win the prize.

 

Not saying Rogers can't or won't get there, just that he's not there yet.

I guess to me, the ring didn't make him a better player, but rather confirmed that he should be held up there with the best. His numbers were always excellent, now he has the prize to go with it, and no matter what winning the prize makes all the difference in the world. It's the difference between being Dan Fouts - great numbers, fun to watch, no prize and Phil Sims - not especially athletic, not as much fun to watch, good but not great numbers, but he has the prize. I'll take the winner - Phil. Lots of guys have looked good and put up numbers and gotten close, but almost all of them are now forgotten. If you want to be included in The Best conversation, you need to win the prize.

 

Not saying Rogers can't or won't get there, just that he's not there yet.

So guys like Dilfer and Brad Johnson on included in The Best cnoversation?

So guys like Dilfer and Brad Johnson on included in The Best cnoversation?

 

Just because you win a Super bowl doesn't make you great, but the really good QB's move to the great category once they get a ring.

Just because you win a Super bowl doesn't make you great, but the really good QB's move to the great category once they get a ring.

 

And it's absolultely silly to discount the RB, OL, TE, WR, and Defense in those discussions!!!!!

QBs are almost like pitchers in baseball since they always touch the ball. They almost have to be judged totally separately due to the unique nature of the position.

 

I agree. You can argue that someone else is a better player, but ultimately it comes down to the fact that everybody wants a great QB to build their team around. So, I can't say I believe Troy Polamalu (for example) is the best player in the league, when the fact is he would not be the first player I picked to start and build a team around. That pick would undoubtedly be the guy I felt was the best QB.

I don't ignore it, but it is the reality of the situation and how almost everyone evaluates players -- or in this case QBs.

 

The difference is this...all the guys responsible for that list could do their job to perfection and an inadequate QB could ruin everything. On the flipside, a great QB can mask shortcomings in those areas. You can't mask a bad QB, IMO. Sure, some teams can be so good at other areas like defense and running the ball that they can win in spite of the QB, but that's very hard to do consistently and it takes elite play everywhere else to pull it off. Guys like Manning and Brady can make some of their other units look better than they really are, IMO, with their ability to move in the pocket and their understanding of coverages, blitzes and protection schemes.

 

Just my opinion.

I guess to me, the ring didn't make him a better player, but rather confirmed that he should be held up there with the best. His numbers were always excellent, now he has the prize to go with it, and no matter what winning the prize makes all the difference in the world. It's the difference between being Dan Fouts - great numbers, fun to watch, no prize and Phil Sims - not especially athletic, not as much fun to watch, good but not great numbers, but he has the prize. I'll take the winner - Phil. Lots of guys have looked good and put up numbers and gotten close, but almost all of them are now forgotten. If you want to be included in The Best conversation, you need to win the prize.

 

Not saying Rogers can't or won't get there, just that he's not there yet.

 

I'm not arguing the point, just stating that it is the reality. Rodgers, regardless of how good he plays, has a ceiling on how good he is perceived to be until he wins a ring. But, rings aside, no QB in the NFL has impressed me as much as Rodgers in the last two seasons.

The QB can be the most valuable without being the best player. QB as a position has incredible value because they trigger every offensive play. That does not mean that the QB is the best football player. Football requires such a diverse skill set and, due to the nature of the QB position, the average QB never shows many of the skills that other great football players exhibit ( that works both ways, I recognize).

 

Now, if we want to try to include value in the argument, I still look at the Steelers record without Ben and then their record without Troy and it tells me that Troy is more valuable to that team and is the best player. I think there is a great case for him as best in the league.

 

I do not buy the draft argument at all. Teams always value QB more, so of course you draft a good one if you can. That does not mean the QB brings more to the table as a player, it just means that you recognize that the position has great impact.

 

Again, JMO.