I can't comment on Hayes as I haven't had the chance to see him this year.

 

I will be really impressed if he can take someone off the dribble better than Kellen Smith.

You guys are both forgetting that Hayes is a 2 guard...not PG, so the assist comment is a moot point. Mayfield and Palmer run the point for Holmes, not Hayes.

 

You guys also failed to mention that Hayes sat out all but 2 minutes of the second half against St. Henry and sat out 10 mins against Brossart, so naturally his numbers are going to be a little lower. Just ask Tamron Manning of Scott Co how good Hayes is. Hayes had 30 on him, 16 in the first half.

 

Not often you see 5'11 guards skying through the lane for tip back dunks either. The kid is athletic as they come and his defense is extremely good because of his quickness.

 

As far as rebounds go, Holmes plays a 2-3 zone so it's tougher for the guards to get a lot of rebounds because they're always out on the perimeter.

 

If you're saying Kellen is better because of stats, I can't put much credibility in to your posts. Smith's numbers were better than Holmes' big 3 last year, but does that mean he's better than them too? What about Blake Bryan who averaged over 20 a game? Is he the best guard because he averaged the most points? Get out and see Hayes play then get back to me. I think you'll be impressed.

 

Coach Booher, who coached last years' Mr. Basketball and career steal leader in the state of Kentucky, said without a doubt Hayes is one of the best guards he's ever coached from a talent standpoint. His size is his biggest downfall, as he only goes about 5'11.

 

Walter,

 

You can't put the stat line out there and discount when someone elses stats are better. You don't get to have it both ways. You made the claim that Chris Hayes was the best all around guard, not a 2 guard so you have to include PG's as well in your discussion. When you say all around I think you have to include stats like assists and I think you need to discuss things like intangibles as well.

 

All players have to sit in games because of foul trouble, blowouts, injuries, etc. To sya someone's stats would be better if they played more wouldn't that be true of all players, not just Hayes? I actually tend to discount stat lines players put up in games where the score ends up something like 88-44. To me what you do in a blowout doesn't tell me what kind of player you are.

 

Corey Pelle put up those stat lines on a regular basis and he singlehandedly made Silver Grove relevant on a nightly basis. He was doing this against the Scott and Bishop Brossart when their sole focus was on stopping him.

 

Just because Holmes is in a 2 3 zone you still have to rebound the basketball whether you are a guard or interior player. With Holmes playing uptempo there is actually more possessions so more opportunities to rebound! Guards actually get a lot of rebounding opportunites in the zone because long shots produce long rebounds.

 

I like Hayes! Think he is going to have a monster year in that system. Season is a marathon and not a sprint and one great stat line doesn't make me think Hayes is better than Smith, Trammell Hatton or Flesch at this time. By March I might have him as my player of the year but not after 3 games over guys who have a history of being very good at the varsity level.

 

As far as questioning the credibility of my posts??? WELL.........I can live with that!

Edited December 14, 201015 yr by 4pointplay
spelling

How about this line from Drew Baker:

 

14 pts

12 rebounds

7 assists

10 blocks

How tall is Baker?

How tall is Baker?

 

6'5 to 6'6

I'm guessing his wing span is longer than that.

 

He's one of those long kids that wasn't always tall. Started in younger days as a guard so he was able to develop some balls skills. Solid outside shooter.

 

He's Exhibit A for the benefit of a school having a junior play JV ball. Many are in the "if he's not good enough his junior year cut him..." belief. CCH would be a lesser team if Coach L followed that thinking.

6'5 to 6'6

I'm guessing his wing span is longer than that.

 

He's one of those long kids that wasn't always tall. Started in younger days as a guard so he was able to develop some balls skills. Solid outside shooter.

 

He's Exhibit A for the benefit of a school having a junior play JV ball. Many are in the "if he's not good enough his junior year cut him..." belief. CCH would be a lesser team if Coach L followed that thinking.

 

However, you rarely see a player that is primarily a JV player his junior year, come in and dominate his senior year, the way Drew Baker is. Normally, a kid that plays primarily JV as a junior will be a benchwarmer, or a small role player at best in his senior season. Unless, of course, the team is loaded the kid's junior year, and there's just no place for him yet in the Varsity rotation.

However, you rarely see a player that is primarily a JV player his junior year, come in and dominate his senior year, the way Drew Baker is. Normally, a kid that plays primarily JV as a junior will be a benchwarmer, or a small role player at best in his senior season. Unless, of course, the team is loaded the kid's junior year, and there's just no place for him yet in the Varsity rotation.

 

Whatever the case Coach Listerman looks like a genius.

Whatever the case Coach Listerman looks like a genius.

 

The kid also worked his butt off, really since the end of the soph year. That is paying off now. Keep it up Drew!

How about this line from Drew Baker:

 

14 pts

12 rebounds

7 assists

10 blocks

 

... and this with only 4 unselfish varsity games under his belt. Scary to think what's to come with a little more experience. Teams won't be able to concentrate only on him either with Thelen and Connelly on the same floor.

However, you rarely see a player that is primarily a JV player his junior year, come in and dominate his senior year, the way Drew Baker is. Normally, a kid that plays primarily JV as a junior will be a benchwarmer, or a small role player at best in his senior season. Unless, of course, the team is loaded the kid's junior year, and there's just no place for him yet in the Varsity rotation.

 

You rarely see anyone put up the numbers that Baker did last game, regardless of what he did as a junior.

 

The only stat line that I have seen this year that is more impressive than Baker's is UL Commit Wayne Blackshear's. 56 points, 21 rebounds, 8 blocks & 7 steals. :eek:

How about this line from Drew Baker:

 

14 pts

12 rebounds

7 assists

10 blocks

 

 

Did he sell popcorn at halftime too? Great job! I love young men who never give up and are willing to work hard to make themselves better.

You rarely see anyone put up the numbers that Baker did last game, regardless of what he did as a junior.

 

The only stat line that I have seen this year that is more impressive than Baker's is UL Commit Wayne Blackshear's. 56 points, 21 rebounds, 8 blocks & 7 steals. :eek:

 

What about UK commit Anthony Davis, he had a stat line a week or so ago that read 37pts, 15 rebs, 11 blks, 6 assts, 6 stls.

What about UK commit Anthony Davis, he had a stat line a week or so ago that read 37pts, 15 rebs, 11 blks, 6 assts, 6 stls.

 

I''ll still take Blackshear's. Both are impressive, though. :thumb: