Are you poverty-stricken? My comment didn't apply to the entire US population.

 

Thankfully, no I'm not. But I will be if we follow your line of thinking. I want to have a job when I get out of college and I don't want to default on my college loans.

Thankfully, no I'm not. But I will be if we follow your line of thinking. I want to have a job when I get out of college and I don't want to default on my college loans.

 

Most of the folks I know in Section 8 housing (and I know plenty) didn't have the luxury of attending college.

 

And I do hear you on the student loans. I heard a quote not long ago stating that as a nation, our student loan debt has exceeded our credit card debt. That's a sobering thought - young people who should be saving money for THEIR childrens' college education can't because they start adulthood behind the 8-ball.

Thankfully, no I'm not. But I will be if we follow your line of thinking. I want to have a job when I get out of college and I don't want to default on my college loans.

 

What will you do when you graduate and there are no jobs that will allow you to cover all of your expenses and pay off your loan? Will you default and then fall into the lazy category and one of the people who caused this mess? BTW are your student loans all privately financed and backed, or are you relying some on government support?

Most of the folks I know in Section 8 housing (and I know plenty) didn't have the luxury of attending college

 

I don't mean to be rude but what is your point? I should just be happy that I have the 'luxury' of attending college when others don't? I'm sorry, that isn't how my thought process works.

 

And I do hear you on the student loans. I heard a quote not long ago stating that as a nation, our student loan debt has exceeded our credit card debt.

You are correct, it exceeds over 1 trillion dollars.

What will you do when you graduate and there are no jobs that will allow you to cover all of your expenses and pay off your loan? Will you default and then fall into the lazy category and one of the people who caused this mess? BTW are your student loans all privately financed and backed, or are you relying some on government support?

 

If I don't find a job? Well, hopefully our economy is turned around because the right policies are implemented. But if it doesn't? I will work, ace. I don't have the type of parents that would just let me sit around and not work. And my student loans are a combination of the two. BTW is your house or car or anything else you have that is worth anything, did you receive a loan from the Government or are you relying on privately funded support? Like a bank?

I'm not saying there's not lazy people out there, but the bottom line is people can't work 16- and 20-hour days just to make ends meet while still not getting anywhere. And while they're working, who watches the kids? If a living wage is not available -- and let's be honest, it ain't available for a significant chunk of America, a chunk that grows daily because the "job creators" don't feel the need to do what's right for their country -- it's no wonder folks take the easy way out and go on the draw.

 

Middle ground, people. Middle ground.

 

I have to have pay days on Tuesday, because when they were on the weekend, people wouldn't show up the next day and Saturday is the busiest day in retail services. Most employers - the legal ones anyway - don't want people to work 16-20 hour days because of overtime, they just want them to show up when they are scheduled.

 

I agree with you regarding some of the barriers however, especially child care, our tax money would be better spent IMO, on quality day care centers to allow (or even demand) current welfare recipients to work. In many circumstances it would be much better for the child as well. That is one way to start to end this culture of welfare.

If I don't find a job? Well, hopefully our economy is turned around because the right policies are implemented. But if it doesn't? I will work, ace. I don't have the type of parents that would just let me sit around and not work. And my student loans are a combination of the two. BTW is your house or car or anything else you have that is worth anything, did you receive a loan from the Government or are you relying on privately funded support? Like a bank?

 

My point is that you are okay with government support and intervention for you because you feel like you deserve it. Is it then not okay for many others. And the notion about getting a job . . . The information that I am seeing is that a lot of recently graduated college students are unemployed or underemployed. If you are underemployed how are you going to pay for bills and student loans? If living at home is an option for you and your bills are then simply your student loan then you are lucky. There are not a lot of folks who have that same option.

I'm not saying there's not lazy people out there, but the bottom line is people can't work 16- and 20-hour days just to make ends meet while still not getting anywhere. And while they're working, who watches the kids? If a living wage is not available -- and let's be honest, it ain't available for a significant chunk of America, a chunk that grows daily because the "job creators" don't feel the need to do what's right for their country -- it's no wonder folks take the easy way out and go on the draw.

 

Middle ground, people. Middle ground.

 

But to get to the middle ground you have to start somewhere. Many choose not to even try which is disturbing.

]Most of the folks I know in Section 8 housing (and I know plenty) didn't have the luxury of attending college.[/b]

And I do hear you on the student loans. I heard a quote not long ago stating that as a nation, our student loan debt has exceeded our credit card debt. That's a sobering thought - young people who should be saving money for THEIR childrens' college education can't because they start adulthood behind the 8-ball.

 

Aren't most people who are in school below the poverty level able to go to college for free through grants and scholarships etc....? Assuming they qualify with GPA and ACT scores?

My point is that you are okay with government support and intervention for you because you feel like you deserve it. Is it then not okay for many others. And the notion about getting a job . . . The information that I am seeing is that a lot of recently graduated college students are unemployed or underemployed. If you are underemployed how are you going to pay for bills and student loans? If living at home is an option for you and your bills are then simply your student loan then you are lucky. There are not a lot of folks who have that same option.

 

I don't feel like I 'deserve' it. That would make me seem like I am entitled to it and I'm not. Its not my money. Its taxpayers money. The option is there. So I take it. Is it a good program? It has its benefits but I worry that the bubble will burst. And actually, unemployment for college grads is nowhere near the UE rate for the people without college degrees. I. thankfully, would have the option of staying home if I needed it and a huge percentage of the unemployed with degrees have resorted to it, sadly. The student loan programs have deferment options.

My point is that you are okay with government support and intervention for you because you feel like you deserve it. Is it then not okay for many others. And the notion about getting a job . . . The information that I am seeing is that a lot of recently graduated college students are unemployed or underemployed. If you are underemployed how are you going to pay for bills and student loans? If living at home is an option for you and your bills are then simply your student loan then you are lucky. There are not a lot of folks who have that same option.

 

Public financed student loans can be deferred or reduced when you are unemployed or do not make enough. I don't know all the details about the program.

Aren't most people who are in school below the poverty level able to go to college for free through grants and scholarships etc....? Assuming they qualify with GPA and ACT scores?

 

I don't know. Assuming you're correct, in any "normal population" there are somewhere between 15 and 16 percent that fall at least one standard deviation below the mean. IQ under 85. Less than a "C" average. Etc., etc.

 

Now, don't take that as a blanket statement that anyone with an IQ of 84 or less cannot succeed in college. But it is tougher. Add varying degrees of other issues separate and apart from income level (mental illness, for example), and you have a significant segment of the population that simply are not going to have a great chance of successfully completing a college degree. It has been my experience that local subsidized housing is full of these folks.

I don't know. Assuming you're correct, in any "normal population" there are somewhere between 15 and 16 percent that fall at least one standard deviation below the mean. IQ under 85. Less than a "C" average. Etc., etc.

 

Now, don't take that as a blanket statement that anyone with an IQ of 84 or less cannot succeed in college. But it is tougher. Add varying degrees of other issues separate and apart from income level (mental illness, for example), and you have a significant segment of the population that simply are not going to have a great chance of successfully completing a college degree. It has been my experience that local subsidized housing is full of these folks.

 

I'm not exactly sure what you are saying? Are you saying IQ levels prevented many from low income levels from going to college?

 

I was under the impression that anyone who was below the poverty level could have a huge chunk of their post-secondary education paid for if not all of it. I know there would be other hurdles to overcome other than cost, but I would think in most cases that would be the largest hurdle.

 

Thanks for sharing your insight.

I'm not exactly sure what you are saying? Are you saying IQ levels prevented many from low income levels from going to college?

 

I was under the impression that anyone who was below the poverty level could have a huge chunk of their post-secondary education paid for if not all of it. I know there would be other hurdles to overcome other than cost, but I would think in most cases that would be the largest hurdle.

 

Thanks for sharing your insight.

 

You're correct that there is aid out there specifically for that demographic. However, many can't afford what isn't covered by the aid they get. The issue gets even worse for the lower-middle class. Often they don't qualify for even half the tuition, then face buying books, meal plans, housing....

 

Many of those who live in Section 8 don't have the academic skills needed to even be accepted to many institutions. Then they face taking non-credit courses to try to improve those skills, but on their own dime. The reasons for the lack of academic skills is yet another poverty related issue we could discuss in it's own thread.

My point is that you are okay with government support and intervention for you because you feel like you deserve it. Is it then not okay for many others.

 

As much as I hate the action the fact was that TARP (bank bail-outs) were required to keep the keepers of most of the nations money supply afloat. Without it, the banks would have failed due the 'Toxic assets' on their books and no other banks would have picked up the Toxic Assets and everything would have ground to a halt and yes a deep depression forms. The bailouts were supposed to be loans. It was basically a lifeline while the housing market bottomed out. The Fed (a private centralized bank) helped by basically taking its rates down almost 0%. Thus, the mega-banks could get money at a most 0% and still charge 20% on credit cards. I do not think most bookies get that much squeeze.

 

And the notion about getting a job . . . The information that I am seeing is that a lot of recently graduated college students are unemployed or underemployed. If you are underemployed how are you going to pay for bills and student loans? If living at home is an option for you and your bills are then simply your student loan then you are lucky. There are not a lot of folks who have that same option.

 

You heard of the housing bubble? Welcome to the college bubble. Its real. Cheap money flowing, cost of a college rising education rising every years. The colleges were (and still are) like people flipping houses. Living off of people borrowing at low percentage rate with deferred payments. College loans are the next 'Toxic asset' - except its not backed by an actual asset like most housing is. Even a subprime mortgage still has a piece of dirt and a structure on it that is worth something. But a $60,000 degree in social studies is fairly worthless right now. If people are angry over their student loan that bought a worthless degree they should protest to those that benefited and got rich or at least stayed employed off the process - the colleges and their administration and their staff. AG Conway went out his way to go after 'private' schools over the issue of false advertising and job placement rates. He could probably do the same with any public institution in the state at this point. The student loan bubble is going to be as much of a problem as the housing bubble.

 

As for who is better with economics?

 

Ask high school senior the difference between a capital dollar and an expense dollar. I bet 90% can not answer that. Make it more like 98% Yet is it the basic foundation of Capital-based economics, i.e. Free Market Capitalism - the only system ever adopted where people have thrived and prospered over time. Right, left, whatever - if we fail to teach the basics of the most successful economic system developed how can we blame people for following the following the false prophets of socialism, communism and other failed economic models.