One thing is certain about the FairTax ... it is radical. So if Obama is so radical he may be just the person to make it happen.

One thing is certain about the FairTax ... it is radical. So if Obama is so radical he may be the just the person to make it happen.

 

 

:laugh::thumb:

I know it's a long read but I find it very interesting. The following letter was written by T. Coleman Andrews shortly after he finished serving as the IRS Commisioner in 1955.

 

"Congress went beyond merely enacting an income tax law and repealed Article IV of the Bill of Rights, by empowering the tax collector to do the very things from which that article says we were to be secure. It opened up our homes, our papers and our effects to the prying eyes of government agents and set the stage for searches of our books and vaults and for inquiries into our private affairs whenever the tax men might decide, even though there might not be any justification beyond mere cynical suspicion."

 

"The income tax is bad because it has robbed you and me of the guarantee of privacy and the respect for our property that were given to us in Article IV of the Bill of Rights. This invasion is absolute and complete as far as the amount of tax that can be assessed is concerned. Please remember that under the Sixteenth Amendment, Congress can take 100% of our income anytime it wants to. As a matter of fact, right now it is imposing a tax as high as 91%. This is downright confiscation and cannot be defended on any other grounds."

 

"The income tax is bad because it was conceived in class hatred, is an instrument of vengeance and plays right into the hands of the communists. It employs the vicious communist principle of taking from each according to his accumulation of the fruits of his labor and giving to others according to their needs, regardless of whether those needs are the result of indolence or lack of pride, self-respect, personal dignity or other attributes of men."

 

"The income tax is fulfilling the Marxist prophecy that the surest way to destroy a capitalist society is by steeply graduated taxes on income and heavy levies upon the estates of people when they die."

 

"As matters now stand, if our children make the most of their capabilities and training, they will have to give most of it to the tax collector and so become slaves of the government. People cannot pull themselves up by the bootstraps anymore because the tax collector gets the boots and the straps as well."

 

"The income tax is bad because it is oppressive to all and discriminates particularly against those people who prove themselves most adept at keeping the wheels of business turning and creating maximum employment and a high standard of living for their fellow men."

 

"I believe that a better way to raise revenue not only can be found but must be found because I am convinced that the present system is leading us right back to the very tyranny from which those, who established this land of freedom, risked their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor to forever free themselves..."

Would this not be a strain on the middle class? The poorer folks couldn't afford to buy, therefore paying no taxes. The wealthy could afford to buy anything and not miss their tax dollars. But the middle class would struggle to meet the demand of a 15-23% tax on everything new. And people complain now that the middle class pays all of the taxes in the current system.

 

Also, I'm not totally sure how this creates a ton of jobs. I'm not disputing it and I'm not necessarily against the idea of a fair tax. But I don't see how moving toward this would create jobs. Somebody fill me in.

 

If the middle class, who is saddled with a tax burden, would be essentially getting a hefty pay increase if the federal government wasn't taking any of the tax money they currently get from their paychecks. I am middle class and the federal government alone took thousands of dollars from me last year in taxes. If I had it, most of it would probably be spent, thereby expanding the economy allowing for their to be more job growth. If companies sell more products, they have to expand and create more jobs, etc. There are millions more like me who if they had those thousands of dollars, they would spend it, pumping huge chunks of money into the economy. It works for me. If I buy a $20,000 car, I pay tax on it. But if a wealthy person buys a $100,000 car, they pay more taxes. Quite possibly, if I have much more disposable income, maybe I buy a $25,000 car instead and pay even more taxes. You pay tax on what you consume. I like it.

One thing is certain about the FairTax ... it is radical. So if Obama is so radical he may be just the person to make it happen.

:lol:

 

If real fairness is radical, call me radical.

Would this not be a strain on the middle class? The poorer folks couldn't afford to buy, therefore paying no taxes. The wealthy could afford to buy anything and not miss their tax dollars. But the middle class would struggle to meet the demand of a 15-23% tax on everything new. And people complain now that the middle class pays all of the taxes in the current system.

 

Also, I'm not totally sure how this creates a ton of jobs. I'm not disputing it and I'm not necessarily against the idea of a fair tax. But I don't see how moving toward this would create jobs. Somebody fill me in.

I've heard 11% is all that's needed for it to be a success. MountainThunder is right, the middle class would be in essence getting a big pay increase.

I will ask the question AGAIN that has been overlooked . . . why would people buy new things, like houses and cars? The strain of those lost jobs in the housing and automotive industry would be tremendous. And why would people by next textiles, like clothing. The demand for new stuff would go down, tremendously.

 

Where do corporations fit into this? Part of the tax plan now incentivizes job creation . . . does that just go away.

I thought this was kind of intersting.

 

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2010/04/taking-a-look-at-the-top-400-taxpayers.php

I will ask the question AGAIN that has been overlooked . . . why would people buy new things, like houses and cars? The strain of those lost jobs in the housing and automotive industry would be tremendous. And why would people by next textiles, like clothing. The demand for new stuff would go down, tremendously.

 

Where do corporations fit into this? Part of the tax plan now incentivizes job creation . . . does that just go away.

 

 

Personally, I have no idea how to answer your question. I will tell you this. If I no longer have federal income taxes deducted from my check, I can't imagine why I would all of a sudden want to buy used goods instead of new ones.:confused:

 

If paying NO taxes for corporations isn't a incentive, I don't know what is.

i don't know that I disagree, but if I can buy a 2009 car ALREADY discounted by 15% why would I buy the 2010. A non-new house is going to cost 15% less automatically than the same house build new, why would I buy a new house.

 

clothing, maybe a different story but houses and cars . . .

i don't know that I disagree, but if I can buy a 2009 car ALREADY discounted by 15% why would I buy the 2010. A non-new house is going to cost 15% less automatically than the same house build new, why would I buy a new house.

 

clothing, maybe a different story but houses and cars . . .

 

Some people like to buy new cars and some like building new houses. I just don't think the Fair Tax will change people that much.

 

Have you been to the website? It can probably answer your questions better than I can. It has to be better than the current system Ace, doesn't it?

On buying new items, I think it is all relative. People almost always make new big ticket purchases based on the monthly payment. That 20% added cost for tax will fit the budget because of the added dollars in the budget from no taxes out of the check. People who want to buy new will still buy new.

i don't know that I disagree, but if I can buy a 2009 car ALREADY discounted by 15% why would I buy the 2010. A non-new house is going to cost 15% less automatically than the same house build new, why would I buy a new house.

 

clothing, maybe a different story but houses and cars . . .

 

I like the fair tax policy, but you have some great questions. The thing that would be great is that under the table workers, drug dealers, and illegal immigrants would at least be paying some federal taxes now.

On buying new items, I think it is all relative. People almost always make new big ticket purchases based on the monthly payment. That 20% added cost for tax will fit the budget because of the added dollars in the budget from no taxes out of the check. People who want to buy new will still buy new.

 

And also remember...There are several hundred dollars of embedded taxes in the price of automobiles under the current system that will no longer exist under the Fair Tax. Now, in reality, the price of cars and any other manufactured good should go down after the Fair Tax is in motion.

I like the fair tax policy, but you have some great questions. The thing that would be great is that under the table workers, drug dealers, and illegal immigrants would at least be paying some federal taxes now.

 

Yep! Every time they purchased something.