Like I said, I'm not looking at stats... I can if you'd like me to, as you've brought them up twice but told me how I could ignore them. :lol:

The game against Boston no way. I watched a replay of it the other day, and the Cavs were down by about 10 with 5 minutes left to play. He was the only reason they were in the game.

 

Also, LeBron isn't a great FT shooter and he's always going to miss some. Can't be extremely good at everything I guess.

 

What will the the LeBron haters say when he takes home the championship?

 

 

 

That is the most insane thing I have ever seen. You fail to realize that Jordan nor Kobe have ever won a ring without another legit HOFer on their teams.

 

Jordan won his first title in his 7th season and had the help of Scottie Pippen. LeBron is in his 7th season, and has never played with a player of Pippen's caliber, no matter how you slice it. Sure he has Shaq now, but everyone knows it isn't the same Shaq.

 

Kobe has won rings with Shaq and then with Gasol. Gasol is probably going to end up being a HOF'er. Has LeBron ever played with anyone close to Gasol? What about Odom? Jamison is about as close as he has gotten to a legit other star on his team, but we don't know how it will work out.

 

No person with any knowledge about basketball could say that Kobe makes his teammates better but LeBron doesn't. Both make their teammates better, but Kobe has always had better teammates.

 

Didn't see Kobe taking the garbage Post-Shaq Lakers to the Finals. LeBron took a team of Boobie Gibson, Big Z, a young Varajao, Sasha Pavlovic, & Donyell Marshall to the Finals, but I guess he doesn't make teammates better?:idunno:

 

I guess making Mo Williams into an All-Star counts for nothing? I guess helping DWest tranform from a bench warmer to a consistent high quality role player means nothing? I guess helping JJ Hickson continue to grow means nothing? I'm sorry but that comment was the craziest thing I have ever seen on here.

 

It's one thing to think that LBJ is overrated, to each his own. But to discredit him by saying he doesn't make his teammates better is wrong. There's no other way to put it. The dude is a walking triple double, and has turned a lottery team in to a consistent threat to win the NBA Finals every year.

 

Hate LeBron, lie to yourself that Kobe is still better or whatever it takes but don't discredit what LeBron has done. I'm amazed at LeBron haters sometimes. I know he does a lot of things that make him not as well liked as he could be, but there are really no legit criticisms of his game compared to any other current players. He's 25 and has plenty of time to get some rings. And when he does, I can't wait to hear what kind of stuff people come up with next.:ohbrother:

 

See Michael Jordan

Weren't you the one that said it's stupid and pointless to speculate on things as if they were fact in another thread? (just given ya hard time man.)

 

That was over negative stuff, like starting rumors about Miller leaving from nothing at all or jumping to conclusion based on people giving out really vague information. I don't think making predictions are a bad thing at all.

 

Like I said, I'm not looking at stats... I can if you'd like me to, as you've brought them up twice but told me how I could ignore them. :lol:

 

Forget it man. Believe what you want to believe. Mo Williams got worse playing for the Cavs.:walk:

 

There's a difference in averaging 16 for a crappy team like the Bucks were and averaging 16 for a contender. Mo's points went down (by nearly 1 PPG), but his minutes were also down a bit and his 3 PFG % went up from 38% to 43%, his TO's also went down by nearly 1 per game.

Let's face it guys, Cats is on Lebron's jock, and that's okay. HT is on Kobe's, so it's all good.

 

I'll reserve judgement on Lebron, but to say that he is in MJ's realm is retarded. Not to say that he may not get there. But to deny that winning the championship doesn't play a part in how he's viewed is simply homerism at it's finest.

Let's face it guys, Cats is on Lebron's jock, and that's okay. HT is on Kobe's, so it's all good.

 

I'll reserve judgement on Lebron, but to say that he is in MJ's realm is retarded. Not to say that he may not get there. But to deny that winning the championship doesn't play a part in how he's viewed is simply homerism at it's finest.

 

In terms of legacy they aren't close. In terms of regular season production you'd be surprised........http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-090324

Forget it man. Believe what you want to believe. Mo Williams got worse playing for the Cavs.:walk:

 

There's a difference in averaging 16 for a crappy team like the Bucks were and averaging 16 for a contender. Mo's points went down (by nearly 1 PPG), but his minutes were also down a bit and his 3 PFG % went up from 38% to 43%.

 

I didn't say Mo Williams got worse, I just said that LeBron didn't make him the player he was -- He was always capable of playing and he showed it.

 

You're still talking stats... :idunno:

I'm not worried about the stats Cats. That's the point of this thread, and the point (however it came across) that Lebron made in the initial comment. You know what? I don't care who wins the scoring title. I'm more concerned at the end of the day who has the ring. That's what they play for. When he gets one, he'll earn some more of my respect. His antics aside, he needs to get over the playoff hump for me to give him any real consideration as "the greatest".

Let's face it guys, Cats is on Lebron's jock, and that's okay. HT is on Kobe's, so it's all good.

 

I'll reserve judgement on Lebron, but to say that he is in MJ's realm is retarded. Not to say that he may not get there. But to deny that winning the championship doesn't play a part in how he's viewed is simply homerism at it's finest.

 

Hey why are you bringing me into to this, I didn't say anything. :lol:

I'm not worried about the stats Cats. That's the point of this thread, and the point (however it came across) that Lebron made in the initial comment. You know what? I don't care who wins the scoring title. I'm more concerned at the end of the day who has the ring. That's what they play for. When he gets one, he'll earn some more of my respect. His antics aside, he needs to get over the playoff hump for me to give him any real consideration as "the greatest".

 

That's the whole point!!

I didn't say Mo Williams got worse, I just said that LeBron didn't make him the player he was -- He was always capable of playing and he showed it.

 

You're still talking stats... :idunno:

 

1. I never said he made him the player he was. But, he did get considerably better playing with LeBron. In fact he has made LeBron a better player as well.

 

2. Stats are just stats. You were the one who wanted to use them so I brought them up.

I'm not worried about the stats Cats. That's the point of this thread, and the point (however it came across) that Lebron made in the initial comment. You know what? I don't care who wins the scoring title. I'm more concerned at the end of the day who has the ring. That's what they play for. When he gets one, he'll earn some more of my respect. His antics aside, he needs to get over the playoff hump for me to give him any real consideration as "the greatest".

 

All I'm saying is that in terms of regular season performance, LeBron is every bit as good as anyone who has ever played.

All I'm saying is that in terms of regular season performance, LeBron is every bit as good as anyone who has ever played.

Got it.

1. I never said he made him the player he was. But, he did get considerably better playing with LeBron. In fact he has made LeBron a better player as well.

 

2. Stats are just stats. You were the one who wanted to use them so I brought them up.

 

I did?!?! :laugh:

I did?!?! :laugh:

 

I guess I misread your earlier post. Neither one of us care about Mo's stats. That said I'd take Cleveland Mo over Milwaukee Mo any day of the week.

Got it.

 

I forgot to add that I do agree with what you're saying. In terms of his legacy, LeBron is no where close to Jordan or Kobe. In terms of overall talent, they're all really close IMO, and I'd probably go with James but I don't think you can go wrong with either.

 

I don't care who people think is the best, but I just hate to see people discredit LeBron because he hasn't won a title. He needs a few of them to be in the conversation with Jordan or Kobe, but he's only 25. Jordan didn't win a ring until he was 28. Kobe won rings earlier in his career but he also had the best teammate in Shaq that any of the 3 have ever played with IMO, and I don't think that can be ignored. That's not taking anything away from Kobe, the Lakers wouldn't have won those rings without him, but give LeBron a top 3-4 Center all-time in the prime of their career and he'd have a ring too. With the teams that LeBron has been on in Cleveland, Jordan nor Bryant would have a ring either, IMO.