The one thing I believe we can all agree upon regardless of the reason or terminology is we are all extraordinarily, blessed/lucky/fortunate to be Americans.

Isn't that the sentiment of rockmom's post in the first place? :ohbrother:

 

:sssh:

6. No putting incorrect or false information on the site.

:lol: Admonishment noted and accepted.

Isn't that the sentiment of rockmom's post in the first place? :ohbrother:

 

:sssh:

Rebuke accepted... I suppose...

 

As I have tried to explain, I cannot personally attribute the mercy, grace, sacrifice, commitment, innovation, passion, etc. of specific known personalities to something I deem impersonal... "luck".

 

I wasn't attempting to rebuke anyone... just explaining why the word "luck" is inadequate in my worldview to label what I know are "blessings". Whether anyone else understands or agrees with what I'm attempting to explain is of minor significance. I am accountable for what I have learned and know to be true. Clearly, this is a big deal to me... but I really am okay if it is not to anyone else.

 

My concession is that I agree with the basic sentiment of RM's first post. I was merely attempting to build upon the foundation she presented. America is the greatest nation on earth and anyone is "fortunate" indeed to be a citizen, whether they attribute it as a directed blessing or blind crap-house luck.

The one thing I believe we can all agree upon regardless of the reason or terminology is we are all extraordinarily, blessed/lucky/fortunate to be Americans.

 

My thoughts exactly!

Rebuke accepted... I suppose...

 

As I have tried to explain, I cannot personally attribute the mercy, grace, sacrifice, commitment, innovation, passion, etc. of specific known personalities to something I deem impersonal... "luck".

 

I wasn't attempting to rebuke anyone... just explaining why the word "luck" is inadequate in my worldview to label what I know are "blessings". Whether anyone else understands or agrees with what I'm attempting to explain is of minor significance. I am accountable for what I have learned and know to be true. Clearly, this is a big deal to me... but I really am okay if it is not to anyone else.

 

My concession is that I agree with the basic sentiment of RM's first post. I was merely attempting to build upon the foundation she presented. America is the greatest nation on earth and anyone is "fortunate" indeed to be a citizen, whether they attribute it as a directed blessing or blind crap-house luck.

 

In your humble understanding of the teachings of Jesus, where does it talk about blessings of material or worldly goods. How is living in America a gift from God. AGAIN I ask does God bless my 8 year old daughter more that an 8 year old Haitian girl, and if so, does anyone want to follow a god as arbitrary as that.

In your humble understanding of the teachings of Jesus, where does it talk about blessings of material or worldly goods. How is living in America a gift from God. AGAIN I ask does God bless my 8 year old daughter more that an 8 year old Haitian girl, and if so, does anyone want to follow a god as arbitrary as that.

 

There is no quesiton that I am proud to be an American. I feel lucky, blessed, fortunate, etc. that I was born in this country to a family of abundant means, blessed with a quality education, with access to quality health care, and with the freedom to pursue anything I choose.

 

That being said - there is another side of the story that the Bible teaches. Scriptures actually paint quite a different picture of what is "blessed". Anyone remember the Beatitudes?

There are times that the scripture about it being harder for a rich man to get into Heaven than for a camel to get through the eye of the needle - may apply directly to me/us as Americans.

In your humble understanding of the teachings of Jesus, where does it talk about blessings of material or worldly goods. How is living in America a gift from God. AGAIN I ask does God bless my 8 year old daughter more that an 8 year old Haitian girl, and if so, does anyone want to follow a god as arbitrary as that.

If a house, a car, clothes, food, televison, a computer with internet access, a savings account, household appliances, heat and air conditioning, medical care, yada, yada, yada are not blessings... why do you work so hard to provide them for your family?

 

If you genuinely believe that being poor is our most blessed state of being, why are you hindering your family by providing them comfort on this earth?

 

Why are you not living in a box under a bridge somewhere and dumpster diving for meals?

 

I do take seriously your questions here... to do this justice will require a bit of thought, review, references and a thread of its own, which I will kick off as soon as I have time to address this sincerely. :thumb:

 

In the meantime... how did the holiday we celebrate in America as "Thanksgiving" get started... and to whom (or what) in particular are we giving our thanks... and for what are we giving thanks... and why?

 

Granted, the following were written by Paul, not spoken by Jesus, but I have to think there's something here to consider...

 

Romans 1:18-22 "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools..."

 

Ephesians 5:19-20 "Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ."

 

I know I'm just a simple-minded fundamentalist and may be a complete fool to some of you, but I vastly prefer to give my thanks to God for the good things with which He has blessed me, and for the lessons He has taught me through not so good things. :thumb:

Fastbreak, what of disasters? Are those God's blessings? How can one say that God blesses one who is not in a disaster. Doesn't that imply that His blessings haven't been bestowed upon those who happen to be in the disaster?

Fastbreak, what of disasters? Are those God's blessings? How can one say that God blesses one who is not in a disaster. Doesn't that imply that His blessings haven't been bestowed upon those who happen to be in the disaster?

I know I feel blessed not to be in a disaster...

 

Help me out here... "For what things am I justified in praising God and giving Him thanks?"

I know I feel blessed not to be in a disaster...

 

Help me out here... "For what things am I justified in praising God and giving Him thanks?"

 

I'm just trying to make sense of it all. Disasters such as Haiti test my faith. I know that God doesn't bring disaster. I know that such things are Nature. But my faith is that GOD directs all things, including nature.

 

So, when I read that God blesses...that I should thank God....I put myself in the shoes of those in Haiti and I find myself trying to put it all together so that it makes sense.

 

Now, from my faith, I believe that God's hand touches all things. But I don't think God brings disasters as punishment. I honestly, like most others, cannot fathom the reasons. But I have faith that God is a good and just God. And yet, I find myself wondering how a just and good God would direct such an event.

 

In the end, I believe. Faith is believing what one doesn't understand. But I do not think my questioning makes me less faithful. If in fact God directs all things, He wouldn't have given me the ability to think, if He felt it wasn't a good thing. :lol:

I long for the days of Frances Bavier.

I'm just trying to make sense of it all. Disasters such as Haiti test my faith. I know that God doesn't bring disaster. I know that such things are Nature. But my faith is that GOD directs all things, including nature.

 

So, when I read that God blesses...that I should thank God....I put myself in the shoes of those in Haiti and I find myself trying to put it all together so that it makes sense.

 

Now, from my faith, I believe that God's hand touches all things. But I don't think God brings disasters as punishment. I honestly, like most others, cannot fathom the reasons. But I have faith that God is a good and just God. And yet, I find myself wondering how a just and good God would direct such an event.

 

In the end, I believe. Faith is believing what one doesn't understand. But I do not think my questioning makes me less faithful. If in fact God directs all things, He wouldn't have given me the ability to think, if He felt it wasn't a good thing. :lol:

The bottom line I take from this is:

 

You do believe God exists.

You don't pretend to understand all His ways.

You struggle sometimes to reconcile what you want to believe with what you see.

You believe God is big enough to withstand your questions.

 

So far, you and I are on the same page. Again I ask, "In your opinion, for what things am I justified in praising God and giving Him thanks?"

 

I promise I am not trying to entrap you, I genuinely am trying to understand.

Edited January 23, 201016 yr by Fastbreak

The bottom line I take from this is:

 

You do believe God exists.

You don't pretend to understand all His ways.

You struggle sometimes to reconcile what you want to believe with what you see.

You believe God is big enough to withstand your questions.

 

So far, you and I are on the same page. Again I ask, "In your opinion, for what things am I justified in praising God and giving Him thanks?"

 

I promise I am not trying to entrap you, I genuinely am trying to understand.

 

How about my question, that I am now asking for the third time, Does God love and bless my 8 year old, more than one in Haiti, or is God just asking arbitrary? Which is worse, arbitrary circumstances, or an arbitrary god.

How about my question, that I am now asking for the third time, Does God love and bless my 8 year old, more than one in Haiti, or is God just asking arbitrary? Which is worse, arbitrary circumstances, or an arbitrary god.

Your first question comingles love and blessing. While they do work well together, they are two separate matters IMO.

 

I can state with great conviction that I believe it is impossible for God to “love” your daughter more than any child in Haiti, or to love me more than you. If God is indeed the author and repository of infinite love there can be no degrees of intensity. Infinity plus one is the same as infinity times infinity. Either God loves or He does not. There are no shades of love with Him. It is either complete or not at all. I believe He loves your daughter… I believe He loves children in Haiti.

 

As far as “blessing” goes, I don’t know how it’s possible to answer that when we are still quibbling over what exactly "blessing" is. Rockmom has yet to give me any idea of the things she considers acceptable for me to offer God thanks or praise. I really would like to hear your response to this as well.

 

As far as arbitrary circumstances versus an arbitrary god… I can tell you with all my heart I do not believe God is arbitrary. I do not pretend to fully understand His ways. People who do concern me. He is infinite… we are not. I do not think it is necessary to know the reason for everything which only an infinite mind can comprehend before we can we trust God at all times in all circumstances. We have a unique tendency to interpret our ignorance of reason as non-reason for the situation.

 

I still would also like to know how is it, if you genuinely believe that being poor is our most blessed state of being, you hinder your family's ability to be "most blessed" by providing them material comfort on this earth? Not being a smart aleck… you seem passionate about this, and I am sincerely wondering how you resolve this in your life.

Edited January 25, 201016 yr by Fastbreak

 

I can state with great conviction that I believe it is impossible for God to “love” your daughter more than any child in Haiti, or to love me more than you. If God is indeed the author and repository of infinite love there can be no degrees of intensity. Infinity plus one is the same as infinity times infinity. Either God loves or He does not. There are no shades of love with Him. It is either complete or not at all. I believe He loves your daughter… I believe He loves children in Haiti.

.

 

He did have a "chosen" people.