I agree. That's what bothers me the most. I always like Mac. I always figured he, Bonds and Sosa were on them. They saved baseball and most thought they were on them so it doesn't bother me that bad. They didn't break the rules. They were wrong but most knew what they were watching and enjoyed the show. What bothers me is that he came out at a time that his hand was almost forced. He still came out though. I hope it starts a domino effect so everybody can just move on! That is the best thing that can happen out of all of this IMO. The end of an era somewhat!

Now if baseball would just get a salary cap they might have a shot to build something special again.

 

This isn't accurate. Commissioner Fay Vincent sent the clubs a memo in 1991 reminding them that players were forbidden from taking any illegal substance. Taking steroids without a valid prescription is illegal under U.S. law, now and then. There was no testing for steroids until 2003 (after being part of the 2002 labor agreement).

 

I do, however, very much agree that MLB tacitly encouraged the use of PED's by not enacting any testing policy or penalties until the situation got totally out of hand. It was good for baseball to have these home run races, so they knowingly turned a blind eye. Nonetheless, this still does not absolve the players of their responsibility in the entire fiasco.

I'll take your word on it. To my knowledge there was no law agains them at the time. I think most agree that baseball knew exactly what was going on and let it go to bring fans back to the game. In a way I'm happy about today. Hopefully the others will just fess up so everybody can move on. I think you either have to exclude that whole era from the Hall or vote the best in that era. Since there is no way to know who was on them and who wasn't I'd vote the best in that era.

IMO this is a huge day for baseball. If others come forward then we can stop all the wondering. Most knew it was going on and now we can close that chapter. Baseball had two bad things going on. This and the cap. Now all the focus can be on why they are killing themselves with no cap!

I'll take your word on it. To my knowledge there was no law agains them at the time. I think most agree that baseball knew exactly what was going on and let it go to bring fans back to the game. In a way I'm happy about today. Hopefully the others will just fess up so everybody can move on. I think you either have to exclude that whole era from the Hall or vote the best in that era. Since there is no way to know who was on them and who wasn't I'd vote the best in that era.

IMO this is a huge day for baseball. If others come forward then we can stop all the wondering. Most knew it was going on and now we can close that chapter. Baseball had two bad things going on. This and the cap. Now all the focus can be on why they are killing themselves with no cap!

 

The problem for some of these guys - Sosa, Bonds, Clemens - is that for them to fess up, they will have to admit to perjury, though I believe the statute of limitations to charge Sosa will toll sometime this year.

I bet mighty might Bret Boone was even on em. I would love to see a list of who admitted or tested positive to steroids over the past 10 years.

I hope he gets in the Hall. I think that anyone with good stats in this era should get in, just with an asterisk next to their plaque.

I hope he gets in the Hall. I think that anyone with good stats in this era should get in, just with an asterisk next to their plaque.

At what year do you start putting asterisks next to names? Late 80s when McGwire said he was juicing to the early mid-2000s? What if you are only apart of one year of the steroid era, should your name be forever linked to it? I am not saying you are right or wrong, but there are endless possibilities and scenarios with putting asterisks all around Cooperstown.

I bet mighty might Bret Boone was even on em. I would love to see a list of who admitted or tested positive to steroids over the past 10 years.

 

Almost no question he was. While I don't think his name has ever been leaked from the secretive 2003 MLB testing, Canseco mentioned him in his book "Juiced". Look at Boone's numbers:

 

2000 - for San Diego, hit .251, 19 HR's, 74 RBI, .747 OPS. Fairly decent season and numbers consistent with his first 7 years in the bigs.

 

2001 - first season in Seattle (now age 31), Boone comes to Spring training all muscled up, hits .331 with 37 home runs, 141 RBI and a whopping .950 OPS.

 

2002 - second season Seattle, hits .278, 24 HR's, 107 RBI, .801 OPS.

 

2003 - third season Seattle, hits .294, 35 HR's, 117 RBI, .902 OPS.

 

MLB starts getting serious about testing in 2004. They tested in 2003, but never publicly released named of positive players).

 

2004 - Boone's numbers drop to .251, 24 HR's, 83 RBI, .740 OPS. Clearly not the same player. Safe to assume he had to eliminate the juicing and saw a serious decrease in production as a result.

 

2005 - Boone goes .221-7-37 in just 84 games, was traded to the Twins, who released him at the end of the year. Career over.

 

Boone has always denied taking PED's, but his three-year stretch in Seattle says otherwise. How else can you explain a guy who had 125 career home runs up to that point suddenly going off for 96 dingers while playing half his games in the biggest pitchers' park in the AL?

I like Mark and I believe he is a genuine guy. But to me the damage was already done. Yesterday's PR move did little to nothing for me. He could have summed up his actions in a few simple sentences, "Look, I took steroids to get a competitive advantage. I was wrong and I am sorry for that and I apologize to any fan of baseball for cheating the game. I lied to you guys the past few years and I am ashamed of it. I should have owned up to my mistakes earlier." End it at that. Do not get in to legitimizing what you did, saying it was just to heal your battered body, etc.

 

He still disputes Conseco's claim that they used to shoot up all the time. I am siding with Conseco on this one. His cred on this issue I will believe before anyone during this time.

I like Mark and I believe he is a genuine guy. But to me the damage was already done. Yesterday's PR move did little to nothing for me. He could have summed up his actions in a few simple sentences, "Look, I took steroids to get a competitive advantage. I was wrong and I am sorry for that and I apologize to any fan of baseball for cheating the game. I lied to you guys the past few years and I am ashamed of it. I should have owned up to my mistakes earlier." End it at that. Do not get in to legitimizing what you did, saying it was just to heal your battered body, etc.

 

He still disputes Conseco's claim that they used to shoot up all the time. I am siding with Conseco on this one. His cred on this issue I will believe before anyone during this time.

I disagree on Conseco. I think he knew some guys that were using and guessed on some others. Then he made up a bunch of stories to sell books. I think the truth lies somewhere between what was in his book and what guys are admitting to.

 

Think about it this way, if you were playing during that era and using, it wouldn't be hard to guess what other guys were to even if you didn't know for sure. And if you were wrong on a few it wouldn't matter. Enough of the ones you put in the book would get busted to make it look like you were telling the truth.

I agree, it is too much to do in a way. I just think the Hall should hold the greatest players of all time. I consider Mac to be one of the best. I think Pete Rose is as well. If they were put in the Hall then it should just say something about their allegations(Clemens or Bonds) or what they have admitted(Mac, A-Rod, Rose).

I agree, it is too much to do in a way. I just think the Hall should hold the greatest players of all time. I consider Mac to be one of the best. I think Pete Rose is as well. If they were put in the Hall then it should just say something about their allegations(Clemens or Bonds) or what they have admitted(Mac, A-Rod, Rose).

 

Isn't that the same as an asterisk?

Isn't that the same as an asterisk?

 

Yeah thats what I was saying. Just an asterisk or something talking about the controversy around the player. Buster Onley talked about the same thing. Just something explaining what the player did.

I disagree on Conseco. I think he knew some guys that were using and guessed on some others. Then he made up a bunch of stories to sell books. I think the truth lies somewhere between what was in his book and what guys are admitting to.

 

Think about it this way, if you were playing during that era and using, it wouldn't be hard to guess what other guys were to even if you didn't know for sure. And if you were wrong on a few it wouldn't matter. Enough of the ones you put in the book would get busted to make it look like you were telling the truth.

 

I think Canseco has been shown to be pretty credible. A money-grubbing punk, but credible. I did not read his second book, but those that he fingered as users in his first book - many of whom, such as Palmerio, McGwire, Gonzalez, Giambi, Rodriguez, adamentantly denied using - turned out to be dead on accurate. In his "Juiced" book, he lists individuals that he had personal knowledge of or had personal conversations with, as opposed to just throwing out guesses and seeing if any stuck. In fact, though I may be mistaken here, has Conseco given ANY names that were not subsequently corroborated?

Edited January 12, 201016 yr by cooperstown

He competed against pitchers who were being just as unethical as the hitters and put up numbers. I don't think he gets in either way, but an argument could be made for that.

He competed against pitchers who were being just as unethical as the hitters and put up numbers. I don't think he gets in either way, but an argument could be made for that.

 

You don't think who has the numbers? McGwire? He's definitely got the numbers. The question is whether those numbers - of which the most important one is his HR total - were attainable without the longterm use of PED's. If he were Ken Griffey - someone who has never been alleged of using - he would be in already or would be darn close to it.