It is an issue of size....the fact is, size gives depth. Case in point, HHS v. Beechwood in two weeks. Both are likely to win their respective classes AGAIN this season. As with this match-up in the past, HHS is bigger and has more depth. Depth means the player that comes into the game is CLOSER to the talent of the player he replaced. It also equates to less need to play both sides of the ball. Quality small teams will likely lose out to quality larger schools because of depth.

Another case in point, HHS v. GCL. Take 2000 for example, Hamblin plays both sides of the ball, the Elder receiver (who doesn't) beats him deep for a TD. Grover gets knocked from the game late playing TE and isn't on the field at LB during the deciding TD drive by Elder. Again, the drop off is bigger with the smaller school. Depth........size matters.

It is an issue of size....the fact is, size gives depth. Case in point, HHS v. Beechwood in two weeks. Both are likely to win their respective classes AGAIN this season. As with this match-up in the past, HHS is bigger and has more depth. Depth means the player that comes into the game is CLOSER to the talent of the player he replaced. It also equates to less need to play both sides of the ball. Quality small teams will likely lose out to quality larger schools because of depth.

Another case in point, HHS v. GCL. Take 2000 for example, Hamblin plays both sides of the ball, the Elder receiver (who doesn't) beats him deep for a TD. Grover gets knocked from the game late playing TE and isn't on the field at LB during the deciding TD drive by Elder. Again, the drop off is bigger with the smaller school. Depth........size matters.

But, using your analogy, Highlands should get blown out by all the teams in their district, region, and class. Highlands is the smallest school in the entire 5A class, so they should not win a game versus a 5A team. Right?

 

But, that does not happen, they beat virtually every 5A team they play, and every one of those teams are bigger then Highlands. Now, this is where the argument that "Highlands is not a normal 3A school, or 5A school". And, that is absolutely correct, they have a far superior program then virtually every other 3A, or 5A, team. That is what makes them so good, not their numbers.

So by that reasoning Trinity just works harder than Highlands each year? Because Trinity would beat Highlands almost every year. Does that mean Trinity is just better prepared and coached?

Seems I'm just spinnin' my wheels here. I'm out of this one. :irked:

Highlands is a true exception to the numbers scenerio. It just goes to reason that if you have a larger school to choose from you should end up with better numbers. Now if the programs are poorly run that cancels out any advantage that should be there.

It's been pointed out that Highlands is a 3A school in size, but dominates the 5A class. Does anyone know if the players who play for Highlands all live in the school district or do the top players from other places transfer there to play football?

 

If they are taking students from only within their school district and doing what they are doing, then it truly is impressive how they can maintain such excellence with their size being against them. If they aren't, then it's really more like a college situation in that you can just pick the best players from anywhere and get them to play for your program. In that case, of course size doesn't matter.

Highlands is a true exception to the numbers scenario. It just goes to reason that if you have a larger school to choose from you should end up with better numbers. Now if the programs are poorly run that cancels out any advantage that should be there.

That's what I'm saying. Highlands is an exception, and there are many other exceptions, maybe not on the same level as Highlands, but none the less exceptions. What is the common link to those exceptions?

 

Beechwood is an exception. LCA has/is becoming an exception. Fort Campbell is an exception. My beloved Raceland is an exception, they commonly beat 2A, 3A, and 4A schools. Pikeville is an exception. Russell is an exception. Covington Catholic has been an exception. Lexington Catholic is an exception. Frankfort is an exception. Mayfield is an exception. How many others are exceptions.

 

Is it the exception, or is it the rule? A good program equals a good record no matter the size of the school. Not a big program equal a good record no matter the quality of the program.

I just don't see it. We are talking about statistics. And statistics are not all inclusive. Like you said, they have to have a good program. I think the quality of the program is more important then the enrollment numbers. And that is what I am getting at.

 

Algebra equation:

Team 1 (big enrollment X poor program) = Team 2 (smaller enrollment X quality program)

 

Which team wins?

 

Is the quality of the program a big part of the equation? Absolutely. But the heart of this thread seems to be that the size of the school doesn't make a difference at all. There is no way that size doesn't play a part in it, and a big one. If I have 1,800 students (900 boys) then I have a MUCH bigger pool to draw from and a much better chance to get quality players than a school with 400 students (200 boys). To say otherwise is denying reality. If 1 out of ever 100 boys runs a 4.6 or better 40 yard dash, then school #2 would have 4 kids while school #1 would have 9. Same goes for any other measure of athletic ability. Which odds would you rather have?

 

However, the quality of the program also is a HUGE part without a doubt. Highlands has a tremendous tradition and if I were a player in that area, that would be where I would want to play. Same goes for Trinity and St Xavier. Same can also be said for Corbin and some of the other smaller schools. If a small school has a great tradition, then a higher percentage of good players will find their way to that school. Also, the feeder programs in the Highlands area and the Jeff Co area are MUCH better than the vast majority, if not all, of the feeder programs around the state. That is a HUGE factor as well. I know of several kids from the Laurel County area who have 'moved' and played for other programs in the area (out of the county) which are better programs than the 2 schools in the county. This happens all over the state and to deny that is disingenuous at best.

 

So you can say that tradition does matter, because it does. But to take the numbers out and say that it just doesn't matter is not being realistic. Trinity and St Xavier have both the tradition and the numbers. Highlands has the tradition. And tradition does draw a higher percentage of athletes to it. I am not saying the 'R' word as that is not the point of this thread, ... because these schools don't have to recruit. The program does it for them.

Size matters just like every other factor... Tradition, community involvement, commitment, etc. EVERYTHING MATTERS. How much each factor matters is relative to each situation. There are hundreds and thousands of variables. They all matter and effect each other.

That's what I'm saying. Highlands is an exception, and there are many other exceptions, maybe not on the same level as Highlands, but none the less exceptions. What is the common link to those exceptions?

 

Beechwood is an exception. LCA has/is becoming an exception. Fort Campbell is an exception. My beloved Raceland is an exception, they commonly beat 2A, 3A, and 4A schools. Pikeville is an exception. Russell is an exception. Covington Catholic has been an exception. Lexington Catholic is an exception. Frankfort is an exception. Mayfield is an exception. How many others are exceptions.

 

Is it the exception, or is it the rule? A good program equals a good record no matter the size of the school. Not a big program equal a good record no matter the quality of the program.

 

 

Out of the hundreds of teams that play football in Kentucky, how many 'exceptions' do you need to say it isn't an exception?

I understand your arguement Ram, but all the small schools you mentioned are not going to beat the top schools in the larger classes simply because they will get worn down by the numbers of the larger schools. A to AA not so much, but anything above that I believe the bigger schools win at least 85% of those games.

But, using your analogy, Highlands should get blown out by all the teams in their district, region, and class. Highlands is the smallest school in the entire 5A class, so they should not win a game versus a 5A team. Right?

 

But, that does not happen, they beat virtually every 5A team they play, and every one of those teams are bigger then Highlands. Now, this is where the argument that "Highlands is not a normal 3A school, or 5A school". And, that is absolutely correct, they have a far superior program then virtually every other 3A, or 5A, team. That is what makes them so good, not their numbers.

 

You missed the point, there are other factors aside from just the size of a school as is discussed at length in this forum (i.e. tradition, feeder system, desire of transfers,etc), however, my point was that size IS a factor....even to the "exception" schools like a Highlands or Beechwood. It wasn't an anology, it was an example supporting my statement that size does matter.

What if you took the 6 state champions from last year, all great programs, and they played each other. How many games does Beechwood win? How many games does Trinity win. I'm guessing that Beechwood goes 0-5 while Trinity goes 5-0. Beechwood may go 1-4 and Trinity may go 4-1 but I think the big schools beat the small ones most of the time.

I think one variable that we have not discussed is, how many of the large schools actually have enough quality player to have a separate offense and defense? I know that schools such as Trinity and St. Xavier do, but I know many 4A and 5A do not. That would be one of the only instances that I could possible concede that a large school has an advantage, if they can field a separate offense and defense. But, at the same time, if a large school can not field a separate offense and defense, then they really are not at much of an advantage over a small school at all.

 

 

And, I am not saying the number of enrollment does not matter at all, I am saying that the number of enrollment has very little affect on football. The only numbers that matter in football, are the numbers of players. If a school has 2,000 students and has 50 football players, their is very little, if any, difference then a school that has 500 students and 50 players.

It's been pointed out that Highlands is a 3A school in size, but dominates the 5A class. Does anyone know if the players who play for Highlands all live in the school district or do the top players from other places transfer there to play football?

 

If they are taking students from only within their school district and doing what they are doing, then it truly is impressive how they can maintain such excellence with their size being against them. If they aren't, then it's really more like a college situation in that you can just pick the best players from anywhere and get them to play for your program. In that case, of course size doesn't matter.

 

Let me address this from the view of someone who is outside the Highlands program. When I was talking to the Highlands video guy at a JV game he went on to explain to me about one of the kids who was 'a 4th generation Highlander'. So he was not talking about a kid from some other part of northern KY. He was talking about a local kid who could trace his football lineage back to his great grandfather at the same school.

 

External recuiting is way over estimated. The successful schools do recuit - internally! A lot of schools have pride and tradition but Highlands seems also offer a very strong heritage to go with it.

Let me address this from the view of someone who is outside the Highlands program. When I was talking to the Highlands video guy at a JV game he went on to explain to me about one of the kids who was 'a 4th generation Highlander'. So he was not talking about a kid from some other part of northern KY. He was talking about a local kid who could trace his football lineage back to his great grandfather at the same school.

 

External recuiting is way over estimated. The successful schools do recuit - internally! A lot of schools have pride and tradition but Highlands seems also offer a very strong heritage to go with it.

 

Thank you, well well said:clap: