We are getting closer and closer to socialism everyday.

 

That's a bit ridiculous imo.

 

So those who voted for Obama are all naive?

 

And Obama is as bad as Hitler?

 

We are getting closer and closer to socialism everyday.

 

Ignorance plain and simple

But without the “necessary” comment the debate might have died out.

 

 

So, I actually served a purpose!

Would you support an 1,000% tax increase on cigarettes, for example? They are still available for us to purchase, right?

 

At risk of sounding inappropriate:

 

 

 

It is the principal behind the action. Taxation is NOT to be used as a form of punishment or as a form of control. Taxation is the government's way of having the revenue to perform its basic duties to the American people. Why do you think the government has the right to use its power of taxation in such a manner? Beyond the fact that it is NOT delegated the power to do so by the Constitution, what political philosophy encourages and enables the state to do this?

 

Until people begin to understand that, the entire discussion is meaningless.

 

Taxation is NOT to be used as a form of punishment or as a form of control.

Taxation is NOT to be used as a form of punishment or as a form of control.

Taxation is NOT to be used as a form of punishment or as a form of control.

Taxation is NOT to be used as a form of punishment or as a form of control.

Taxation is NOT to be used as a form of punishment or as a form of control.

 

I do not mean to be condescending and forthright, but its just absurd the way that people view government.

 

:thumb: You are wise beyond your years.

Leatherneck, I'll be honest...I really don't care if the items are taxed or not taxed. And frankly, since I don't I'm not of the energy level to debate it vigorously. If sodas are taxed, so be it. If not, that's fine too.

 

You're right...the food stamp issue is separate, and on that I have much stronger opinions, and would be up for debate.

 

But, I probably really shouldn't have even started in this thread, because I really, REALLY am apathetic about the thought of a tax on sodas. I guess because it doesn't affect me.

RM- once again, do not mean to be condescending or forthright, but I think being apathetic on an issue like this is dangerous. You know that I have many issues with the ideas brought forth from President Obama's campaign and his votes on issues in his Senate terms.

 

However, to me, besides abortion, the most dangerous idea that he has put forth is the way that he treats taxes in instances such as these. I don't mean to tell you what to do, but I urge you to consider the power that the state can wage via taxes, the mentality that this administration tends to approach taxation with, and perhaps consider again why you are apathetic to these types of issues.

Then again, as I mentioned to a good friend in a recent e mail, perhaps its not so odd after all. I've seen a sea change in the mentality of Americans over the last 10 years or so. It's very alarming to me. We have in my opinion really moved away from personal responsibility towards that "nanny state" as some people refer to it. Take care of me and through your policies, Mr and Mrs. Elected Officials, influence and control my life so I can live it the "right way". Increase taxes on junk food to discourage me from purchasing it, because I refuse to listen to the countless warnings about the danger of eating too much junk food and modify my own behavior. I am a weak person that cannot control my own decisions, so please Mr.

It reminds me of a well-known quote from Russian author Yevgeny Zamyatin in his 1921 dystopian novel We:

 

"Those two, in paradise, were given a choice: happiness without freedom, or freedom without happiness. There was no third alternative. Those idiots chose freedom, and what came of it? Of course, for ages afterward they longed for the chains"

RM- once again, do not mean to be condescending or forthright, but I think being apathetic on an issue like this is dangerous. You know that I have many issues with the ideas brought forth from President Obama's campaign and his votes on issues in his Senate terms.

 

However, to me, besides abortion, the most dangerous idea that he has put forth is the way that he treats taxes in instances such as these. I don't mean to tell you what to do, but I urge you to consider the power that the state can wage via taxes, the mentality that this administration tends to approach taxation with, and perhaps consider again why you are apathetic to these types of issues.

 

 

You're not condescending. But, I guess like most others, I have the ability to pick my battles and this really isn't one of them.

 

Here's how I look at it:

 

I've never EVER had a say in whether or not I get taxed, or how much that tax will be. However, I do have the ability to choose which products/services I will buy, and pay taxes on. So, given that, if I want to smoke, I will pay exorbitant taxes. If I want to drink sodas, I will pay taxes. It is what it is, and frankly, I have better things to expend my angst upon than whether or not sodas get taxed. I'll leave all that fear and strife to those of you with enough clout/money to be worried. If the government is coming to take all my money, well, more power to them....it ain't much to begin with. :lol:

You're not condescending. But, I guess like most others, I have the ability to pick my battles and this really isn't one of them.

 

Here's how I look at it:

 

I've never EVER had a say in whether or not I get taxed, or how much that tax will be. However, I do have the ability to choose which products/services I will buy, and pay taxes on. So, given that, if I want to smoke, I will pay exorbitant taxes. If I want to drink sodas, I will pay taxes. It is what it is, and frankly, I have better things to expend my angst upon than whether or not sodas get taxed. I'll leave all that fear and strife to those of you with enough clout/money to be worried. If the government is coming to take all my money, well, more power to them....it ain't much to begin with. :lol:

 

But, you DO have a say in whether or not you get taxed when you go to the ballot box and vote. I don’t remember Obama or any member of Congress saying during the campaign that the way to fund universal health care was through taxing junk food, because if they had they would have been blasted for it. I guess the campaign of change was just a catch all. Change how much we pay in taxes, change how we eat, change our free market economy, etc…

You're not condescending. But, I guess like most others, I have the ability to pick my battles and this really isn't one of them.

 

Here's how I look at it:

 

I've never EVER had a say in whether or not I get taxed, or how much that tax will be. However, I do have the ability to choose which products/services I will buy, and pay taxes on. So, given that, if I want to smoke, I will pay exorbitant taxes. If I want to drink sodas, I will pay taxes. It is what it is, and frankly, I have better things to expend my angst upon than whether or not sodas get taxed. I'll leave all that fear and strife to those of you with enough clout/money to be worried. If the government is coming to take all my money, well, more power to them....it ain't much to begin with. :lol:

RM, you know I respect at you as a poster and a person very much, but you need to realize that this is government abusing its power. After much thought, despite my initial sense of "it is what it is" to the Iraq war, after much reading and pondering, I have began to turn against. Simply because, in 2002, the Republican Congress essentially washed its hands, delegating the decision of whether or not to use military force [rather than the President's rightful role of directing it once Congress declares] to fmr. President Bush. Beyond whether or not we can accomplish anything in Iraq, the clear abuse of power and disregard for the Constitution turns me off to it. In the same manner that I believe that the (Republican) Congress and fmr. President Bush abused its powers, I now see the President abusing his power and disregarding the Constitution by using taxation in a manner that is dangerous. At risk of sounding redundant- and keeping in mind that my objective review of the an issue that I once had a different, more apathetic opinion, like you- I urge you to reconsider this issue- your stated position, but more important the weight you attach to this issue and the perspective from which you view it.

But, you DO have a say in whether or not you get taxed when you go to the ballot box and vote. I don’t remember Obama or any member of Congress saying during the campaign that the way to fund universal health care was through taxing junk food, because if they had they would have been blasted for it. I guess the campaign of change was just a catch all. Change how much we pay in taxes, change how we eat, change our free market economy, etc…

 

But I do remember alot of us on this side of the aisle asking how he would fund his programs. When we held that it couldn't happen without higher taxes we were told no, Obama has said he will only raise taxes on the evil rich.

RM, you know I respect at you as a poster and a person very much, but you need to realize that this is government abusing its power. After much thought, despite my initial sense of "it is what it is" to the Iraq war, after much reading and pondering, I have began to turn against. Simply because, in 2002, the Republican Congress essentially washed its hands, delegating the decision of whether or not to use military force [rather than the President's rightful role of directing it once Congress declares] to fmr. President Bush. Beyond whether or not we can accomplish anything in Iraq, the clear abuse of power and disregard for the Constitution turns me off to it. In the same manner that I believe that the (Republican) Congress and fmr. President Bush abused its powers, I now see the President abusing his power and disregarding the Constitution by using taxation in a manner that is dangerous. At risk of sounding redundant- and keeping in mind that my objective review of the an issue that I once had a different, more apathetic opinion, like you- I urge you to reconsider this issue- your stated position, but more important the weight you attach to this issue and the perspective from which you view it.

 

Are you comparing the war in Iraq to the taxation of sodas and beer?

But, you DO have a say in whether or not you get taxed when you go to the ballot box and vote. I don’t remember Obama or any member of Congress saying during the campaign that the way to fund universal health care was through taxing junk food, because if they had they would have been blasted for it. I guess the campaign of change was just a catch all. Change how much we pay in taxes, change how we eat, change our free market economy, etc…

 

 

Maybe the alternatives were no better at the ballot box?

RM, you know I respect at you as a poster and a person very much, but you need to realize that this is government abusing its power. After much thought, despite my initial sense of "it is what it is" to the Iraq war, after much reading and pondering, I have began to turn against. Simply because, in 2002, the Republican Congress essentially washed its hands, delegating the decision of whether or not to use military force [rather than the President's rightful role of directing it once Congress declares] to fmr. President Bush. Beyond whether or not we can accomplish anything in Iraq, the clear abuse of power and disregard for the Constitution turns me off to it. In the same manner that I believe that the (Republican) Congress and fmr. President Bush abused its powers, I now see the President abusing his power and disregarding the Constitution by using taxation in a manner that is dangerous. At risk of sounding redundant- and keeping in mind that my objective review of the an issue that I once had a different, more apathetic opinion, like you- I urge you to reconsider this issue- your stated position, but more important the weight you attach to this issue and the perspective from which you view it.

 

Seriously....you think you need to tell me what I need to realize? :lol: Again, this is not dangerous, IMO, and it's being blown out of proportion, IMO.

 

I can't take on every issue with passion. I just don't have the emotional energy. I happen to have enough struggles just making it day to day...and that was true before this proposed additional tax, before Obama was President, before Bush was President...even before Clinton or Reagan.

 

I hope you understand that for me, this is not important enough, nor is it an issue I can personally impact. What little energy I have left after trying to get by in my own life, I reserve for trying to effect REAL change in the lives of people I know, or can help.

Are you comparing the war in Iraq to the taxation of sodas and beer?

 

No. Just that at the core of both issues are A) government abuse of power and B) I can relate to RM's feeling of apathy towards an issue.

Seriously....you think you need to tell me what I need to realize? :lol: Again, this is not dangerous, IMO, and it's being blown out of proportion, IMO.

 

I can't take on every issue with passion. I just don't have the emotional energy. I happen to have enough struggles just making it day to day...and that was true before this proposed additional tax, before Obama was President, before Bush was President...even before Clinton or Reagan.

 

I hope you understand that for me, this is not important enough, nor is it an issue I can personally impact. What little energy I have left after trying to get by in my own life, I reserve for trying to effect REAL change in the lives of people I know, or can help.

Very well. My apologies for going over the top.