I have thought this all along. BCG is a proven winner, YOU JUST CANNOT WIN WITHOUT A POINT GUARD!!!!

 

UK progressively got worse with him at the helm, and I think they would be even worse off.

 

Definitely wrong? Because you don't share his opinion? You can't possibly argue that UK got worse under Tubby's watch can you?

 

04 - 05 - 28 - 6

05 - 06 - 22 - 13

06 - 07 - 22 - 12

 

:thumb: There I go, backing things up with fact. :eek:

 

Wow! Ok guys lets take a look back at what started all this. CatsCatsCats said UK progressively got worst under Tubby. I said that is not true at all, and no facts to support your alls argument that they got progressively worse under him. So where have you all proven that still? He won the title his first year, so lets think can you get higher than that? No. So of coarse your going to go down a bit. Then elite 8, then second round. Next year was a sweet 16, so I pretty sure thats better than a second round. So thats getting better. Next year sweet 16, so stayed about the same. After that #1 overall seed in the tournament, lost in elite 8. So thats also getting better than the sweet 16 the year before. Next year once again overall #1 seed, yeah they did get upset in 2nd round. Year after that 2 seed lost in double overtime in elite 8. His last two years I will give you they were bad and did get worst, I wont argue that. Under Tubby UK they had seeds over 2,3,5,3,4,1,1,2,8,8.

 

So yeah under Tubby UK was a top 4 seed in the tournament 8 out of his ten years. He ended up getting UK to be the overall number one seed in tournament twice in years 6 and 7. So please tell me how does this show that UK got progressively worse under Tubby. Your statement was wrong, and as I said before you cant support that. If you said during Tubby's last two years at UK they got worst, then yeah you have a point because they did. However during the 10 years at UK they did not just keep getting worse as you said, so I was just point that out to you.

 

Its also interesting to hear you say that Billy G is a proven winner. His best year in the tournament was a sweet 16. I believe Tubby had been to sweet 16 to before he came to UK. So I guess you in the end do think Tubby is a winner and we just wasted a whole argument, since you think making the sweet 16 makes Billy G a proven winner. (With that said I do think Billy G will do just fine here.)

A three-year snippet out of 10 seasons ...

 

He had as much talent in 02 as anyone in the nation and it was dubbed Team Turmoil. He started off in 01 4-6. But that's not even the issue. The man said Tubby started to decline, and he did.

His argument was taht they got progressively worse. The last 3 seasons would seem to indicate that, although it's obviously not absolute.

 

With that said, when you win a national championship in your 1st year, can things get better?

 

I liken Tubby to Larry Coker in that regard. Certainly I think Tubby has had more success, but we're dealing with two different sports, and it is a similiar situation.

Ha ha ha, I'm definitely wrong? Which UK team have you watched for the last 6 or 7 seasons. Here are the facts "Mr. Knowitall".....

 

Side note the class are the incoming Frosh that played on each team.

 

1998-OTS's first season....with Pitino's boys. Hmmm, Let's see a national championship and a sparkling 35-4 record. Don't mention that this team had been in the title game in both 96 and 97. I could have led them to this title.

Players included- Jeff Sheppard, Wayne Turner, Nazr Mohammed, and Allen Edwards. His recruits were only......Saul Smith, Michael Bradley, Myron Anthony, and Ryan Hogan. Bradley transferred and went on to play a few seasons in the NBA.

 

1999- Still plenty of Pitino's boys- 28-9. Lost to Michigan State in the Elite 8.

Players included- Jamal Magloire, Scott Padgett, Wayne Turner and frosh Tayshaun Prince. Other Frosh on the roster besides Prince were............Jules Camara, Steve Masiello, and Todd Tackett.

 

2000-Went in with a spectacular record of 23-10. Wow! Even better was the fact that they got taken out in the round of 32 by Syracuse. Hmm, great. Key players were Tayshaun Prince, Jamal Magloire. His class wasn't that bad this year, and was actually very underrated. It included Keith Bogans, Marvin Stone (who like M.Bradley would transfer), Marquis Estill. Not a bad class.

 

2001-UK again lost 10 games winning 24, finishing at the sweet 16 with a loss to USC.... Key players were Tayshaun Prince, Keith Bogans, Maquis Estill and Jules Camara. Recruiting class included Jason Parker, Cliff Hawkins, Eric Daniels, Gerald Fitch and Matt Heisenbuttel and Corey Sears. Not bad but nothing to brag about.

 

2002-"Ten-loss Tubby" was born as UK lost 10 games once again, winning 22. Loses included Western KY, and 4 other unranked teams. UK was beaten in the sweet 16 by a very good Maryland squad. Players included Prince, Bogans, Gerald Fitch, Cliff Hawkins and Marquis Estill. This recruiting class included underrated Chuck Hayes (although he was later overrated by many UK fans), waste of a scholarship Rashaad Carruth, Josh Carrier, and Adam Chiles.

 

2003- The year OLT seemed to have UK on track. They only lost 4 games, winning 32 and didn't lose a game in the SEC. The run ended with a loss to Marquette and future HOF Dwayne Wade. Bogans, Hayes, Camara, Fitch, Hawkins, and Estill lead the way. This class included Kelenna Auzibuike, JR. Antwain Barbour, Brandon Stockton, Ravi Moss, Benard Cote, and Preston Lemaster.

 

2004- UK won 27 and lost 5 finishing 2nd in the final regular season poll. Once again UK lost in the tournament this time to UAB. UK was lead by Fitch, Hawkins, Auzibuike, Hayes and Hawkins. Frosh that year were Sheray Thomas, Lukaz Orbzut, Bobby Perry and Shagari Alleyene.

 

2005- UK was 28 and 6, losing again to MSU in the Elite 8. Key players were Auzibuike, Hayes, and Pat Sparks. Frosh were Randolph Morris, Rajon Rondo, Ramel Bradley and Joe Crawford.

 

2006- Team turmoil went an amazing 22 and 13 and lost to UConn in the Second round. Morris, Rondo, Crawford and Sparks led the way for the Cats.

Incoming this year was Jared Carter and Mike Williams.

 

2007- UK finished at 22 and 13, losing to Kansas in the 2nd round. UK was led by Morris Crawford and Bradley. Frosh that year were Jodie Meeks, Perry Stevenson, Michael Porter, Ramon Harris, and walk on Dwight Perry.

 

Discounting the 98 and 99 teams which had plenty of talent left from the Pitino era, Tubby only had 3 seasons of great success at UK, with the best overall efforts leading to Elite 8 runs.

 

Tubby's recruiting did him in, and UK IMO. He got very lucky on Tayshaun Prince, Chuck Hayes and Jodie Meeks. And for all of Morris, Rondo, and Crawford's hype they never became the kind of class people thought they would have been. Rondo was much better in the pros. In ten years Tubby recruited 7 NBA players

1. Tayshaun Prince- who went on to become a 1st rounder and a very good player.

2. Keith Bogans- NBA player

3. Chuck Hayes- Undrafted NBA player, but has worked his way to becoming a fixture in the league.

4. Randolph Morris- went undrafted and never lived up to his hype

5. Rajon Rondo- 1st round pick, who became much better in the pros.

6. Kelenna Auzibuike- also undrafted I believe, and left school early to get away from UK.

7. Jodie Meeks- will be an NBA player in the future

 

But, he also filled his roster with many players who aren't really even mid-major worthy which include:

Saul Smith, Myron Anthony, Ryan Hogan, Todd Tackett, Corey Sears, Josh Carrier, Adam Chiles, Brandon Stockton, Benard Cote, Preston Lemaster, Sherray Thomas, Orbzut and Alleyene, Jared Carer, Mike Williams.

 

The roster he left following his last year included:

Jodie Meeks, Ramel Bradley,Derrick Jasper, Joe Crawford, Ramon Harris, Perry Stevenson, Michael Porter, Mark Coury, Jared Carter, Mark Krebs, and Dwight Perry. Patrick Patterson, Alex Legion were brought in along with a few other players.

 

People that isn't a good roster. Most importantly it's not built for the future. Bradley and Crawford were graduating leaving 1 PG on the roster in Jasper. The only true post players on the roster worth a scholarship were Stevenson and Patterson, and Stevenson was still a major project. That team wasn't well built.

 

Lazy recruiting put UK in this position. Only extreme luck allowed UK to have their 3 big seasons in the middle of OTS run. Players like Chuck Hayes, Gerald Fitch and Auzibuike ended up being better players than their star rating had suggested. Had OTS ever been a good recruiter or coach, these seasons would have been the norm. How do you follow up 3 straight title game appearances with two straight classes whose 3rd best player ended up being Saul Smith? That is inexcusable especially at UK.

 

The man had two "turmoil" seasons in 4 years. I'm sorry, but something doesn't add up there.

Wow! Ok guys lets take a look back at what started all this. CatsCatsCats said UK progressively got worst under Tubby. I said that is not true at all, and no facts to support your alls argument that they got progressively worse under him. So where have you all proven that still? He won the title his first year, so lets think can you get higher than that? No. So of coarse your going to go down a bit. Then elite 8, then second round. Next year was a sweet 16, so I pretty sure thats better than a second round. So thats getting better. Next year sweet 16, so stayed about the same. After that #1 overall seed in the tournament, lost in elite 8. So thats also getting better than the sweet 16 the year before. Next year once again overall #1 seed, yeah they did get upset in 2nd round. Year after that 2 seed lost in double overtime in elite 8. His last two years I will give you they were bad and did get worst, I wont argue that. Under Tubby UK they had seeds over 2,3,5,3,4,1,1,2,8,8.

 

So yeah under Tubby UK was a top 4 seed in the tournament 8 out of his ten years. He ended up getting UK to be the overall number one seed in tournament twice in years 6 and 7. So please tell me how does this show that UK got progressively worse under Tubby. Your statement was wrong, and as I said before you cant support that. If you said during Tubby's last two years at UK they got worst, then yeah you have a point because they did. However during the 10 years at UK they did not just keep getting worse as you said, so I was just point that out to you.

 

Its also interesting to hear you say that Billy G is a proven winner. His best year in the tournament was a sweet 16. I believe Tubby had been to sweet 16 to before he came to UK. So I guess you in the end do think Tubby is a winner and we just wasted a whole argument, since you think making the sweet 16 makes Billy G a proven winner. (With that said I do think Billy G will do just fine here.)

 

And they didn't get progressively worse the last two seasons???

Wow! Ok guys lets take a look back at what started all this. CatsCatsCats said UK progressively got worst under Tubby. I said that is not true at all, and no facts to support your alls argument that they got progressively worse under him. So where have you all proven that still? He won the title his first year, so lets think can you get higher than that? No. So of coarse your going to go down a bit. Then elite 8, then second round. Next year was a sweet 16, so I pretty sure thats better than a second round. So thats getting better. Next year sweet 16, so stayed about the same. After that #1 overall seed in the tournament, lost in elite 8. So thats also getting better than the sweet 16 the year before. Next year once again overall #1 seed, yeah they did get upset in 2nd round. Year after that 2 seed lost in double overtime in elite 8. His last two years I will give you they were bad and did get worst, I wont argue that. Under Tubby UK they had seeds over 2,3,5,3,4,1,1,2,8,8.

 

So yeah under Tubby UK was a top 4 seed in the tournament 8 out of his ten years. He ended up getting UK to be the overall number one seed in tournament twice in years 6 and 7. So please tell me how does this show that UK got progressively worse under Tubby. Your statement was wrong, and as I said before you cant support that. If you said during Tubby's last two years at UK they got worst, then yeah you have a point because they did. However during the 10 years at UK they did not just keep getting worse as you said, so I was just point that out to you.

 

Its also interesting to hear you say that Billy G is a proven winner. His best year in the tournament was a sweet 16. I believe Tubby had been to sweet 16 to before he came to UK. So I guess you in the end do think Tubby is a winner and we just wasted a whole argument, since you think making the sweet 16 makes Billy G a proven winner. (With that said I do think Billy G will do just fine here.)

 

Okay, here we go. I apologize. TUBBY SMITH was the BEST Coach in UK History. He left UK with a roster full of talent, and BCG has squandered it all.

 

To think that anyone would think that Michael Porter isn't a point guard. The nerve of us.

 

To perhaps suggest that UK dropped off between the years of 1998 and 2008 is absurd!!! How dare us!!! C'mon we are always in the top 10, and McD's All-Americans are beating down our door every year.

 

While the UNC's, Kansas, and Florida's of the world were concentrating on National Championships and recruiting, we watched exciting "ball-line" defense and unhearalded hero's lose in the 2nd round of the NCAA's.

 

C'mon people UK took a nose dive under Tubby. He had 3 good seasons with his own players. But, I believe with unhearalded players such as Tayshaun Prince and Chuck Hayes turning into stars Tubby wanted to hang his hat on that kind of recruiting. Well guys, honestly that is how mid-majors recruit. That is why we have no talent on our roster. Rather than high profile players who may bolt, he took projects like Alleyne and Orbzut, or players considered to be slow or small like Porter, or unknowns like Ramon Harris and Bobby Perry. We have a mid-major roster with the exception of Patterson, Meeks, and Miller, two of which BCG brought in, although Tubby did alot of the ground work on Pat-Pat.

No one else on this roster would play at any major high profile school. Stevenson has improved but he wouldn't dominate or star even in the Atlantic 10 or WAC.

 

That is what I'm talking about. Tubby brought this program to the ground. BCG may or may not be the man to fix it, but I guarantee you one thing....IT IS TOO SOON TO BE ABLE TO TELL

I liken Tubby to Larry Coker in that regard. Certainly I think Tubby has had more success, but we're dealing with two different sports, and it is a similiar situation.

 

I always thought the same thing. Kinda awkward that UK is my basketball team and the Canes are my FB team. But similar situations no doubt.

You have officially lost all credibility. Tayshaun Prince was a very high rated recruit out of high school.

And they didn't get progressively worse the last two seasons???

 

Once again you fail to notice that I did mention that UK did get worst his last two seasons. That is the thing a lot of you all fail to notice. Even though some people do support Tubby, it does not mean we didn't notice bad things. I mean I wont even begin to argue that during Tubby's last two seasons he didn't do that good of a job, and is because of his recruiting. He slacked off and didn't form backup plans and led to bad teams during his last two seasons. Its just funny you all keep putting it on him though, for this team getting even worst than his 8 seeds the last two seasons he was here. I would maybe give it to you all last year, because that would far some on Tubby last season. But this season is all on Billy G. This team was plenty talented enough to make the big dance, and they did not.

 

The whole point of this arguement was cause triple cats said UK got worse under Tubby every year he was here, and that was not true at all and thats all I was pointing out. If he just pointed out that UK was getting worst his last two years under Tubby, then there would have been no argument from me because that would have been true. I don't know how we all ended up getting into all of this now. I mean what he said was not true, its as simple as that.

You have officially lost all credibility. Tayshaun Prince was a very high rated recruit out of high school.

 

:thumb:

You have officially lost all credibility. Tayshaun Prince was a very high rated recruit out of high school.

 

High rated recruit yes?

Projected as one of the best college basketball players in the country.... I don't know. He was look at as more of a spot up guy and a defender. At UK, he did a little of everything.

 

Very highly rated, but not really regarded for as good as he was. Yes, he was a McDonalds All-American, but most places had him in the 16-25 range or lower before his senior season. He was never expected to become the type of go-to star that he became. I would liken it to where so places (not rivals or scout, espn) had Miller rated in the 20-25 range, but how many of us feel that he is going to become Tayshaun?

 

Before the big-time internet scouting boom of around 2001 or 02, very few players were well known. Alot of Tayshaun becoming a MDAA was probably his recruitment by UK. How much did you know about T. Prince before he committed to UK?

 

Actually, most of the Tayshaun Prince talk before he came to UK was negative. UK's competition for him was suppossedly UCLA, but the Bruins had dropped an offer to his older brother years earlier and Tayshaun was suppose to be bitter about it. He suppossedly led them on get revenge or something. That was alot of his hype.

 

And FWIW, I don't need your validation of my credibility, as I'm posting opinion in a sports forum, not writing a scholarly entry in a science journal:D

So if a McDonald's All-American isn't a top-notch recruit, then what is?

 

No site had Miller rated in the top 25, although I do look for him to be a star by the time his college career is over. I think he may even be a better college player than Prince when it's all said and done.

So if a McDonald's All-American isn't a top-notch recruit, then what is?

 

No site had Miller rated in the top 25, although I do look for him to be a star by the time his college career is over. I think he may even be a better college player than Prince when it's all said and done.

 

Thats what I was thinking. But I guess it would just weaken his argument, if he admitted that Prince was a top notch recruit. Besides the 03 and 05 classes which were just very bad classes. Tubby didn't do that bad of a job recruiting at all. However that 03 and 05 class definitely led to his down fall at UK.

Once again you fail to notice that I did mention that UK did get worst his last two seasons. That is the thing a lot of you all fail to notice. Even though some people do support Tubby, it does not mean we didn't notice bad things. I mean I wont even begin to argue that during Tubby's last two seasons he didn't do that good of a job, and is because of his recruiting. He slacked off and didn't form backup plans and led to bad teams during his last two seasons. Its just funny you all keep putting it on him though, for this team getting even worst than his 8 seeds the last two seasons he was here. I would maybe give it to you all last year, because that would far some on Tubby last season. But this season is all on Billy G. This team was plenty talented enough to make the big dance, and they did not.

 

The whole point of this arguement was cause triple cats said UK got worse under Tubby every year he was here, and that was not true at all and thats all I was pointing out. If he just pointed out that UK was getting worst his last two years under Tubby, then there would have been no argument from me because that would have been true. I don't know how we all ended up getting into all of this now. I mean what he said was not true, its as simple as that.

 

Actually, he said they got "progressivley worse" which doesn't mean they got worse every year. Check it.

So if a McDonald's All-American isn't a top-notch recruit, then what is?

 

No site had Miller rated in the top 25, although I do look for him to be a star by the time his college career is over. I think he may even be a better college player than Prince when it's all said and done.

 

Well if Prince was a very highly rated recruit out of high school, then of course you would think that Miller would be a better college player.