I believe we are supposed to tithe regardless of our income. I also believe that very few do so. I am often one of this group.

 

So where do I find a problem?

 

We are clearly told in scripture to tithe (return to the storehouse), No question there. However, does that mean that, like those in the pulpit like to insist, that it go to our church? I don't think that, necessarily, is the case.

 

Obviously, for valid and self-serving reasons, the "clergy" is going to tell us the tithe must(or at least better) go in the church collection plate or basket.

 

Personally, I believe too many of our churches are trying to compete with secular forms of entertainment particularly in regard to the youth. There is, I believe, too much pushing gymnasiums, family centers, cruises, short trips, and varied social events. All of these cost money and much of that money comes from those offerings in church.

 

For example, Church X is taking its youth on a "mission trip" (my experience is that these are much more social in nature with a little painting or raking to justify the "project"). While travelling along in the church bus listening to music through headphones (most likely not gospel music), the bus surely passes many in true need. I am troubled by this and I would think many others are, too.

 

Therefore, am I tithing properly if I put a little less in for the social activities and the preacher's "love offering" for his birthday, and use that money where the need is much greater.

 

I would never try to express the mind of God (personally, I find Him to be often an unrevealing mystery). However, I would think that helping those truly in need would be more pleasing to Him and would fullfil the meaning of tithing.

 

Now, don't someone say we just need to do both. That is a copout and, as I have often told others, I haven't found the word "gymnasium" in the Holy Bible.

 

I'm new to BGP but thought I may as well "dive in" and start a thread.

First Welcome, You are in for some ride! This a great place and alot of interesting views, just check a new thread I started:thumb:

 

As to discuss what is the proper way to tithe or who should the money go to well, I believe that answer is between a person and God.

 

Here is how I tithe, but again just me

 

I give 50% to our church debt ( I believe that God wants no one in debt)

25% to the church to keep administrative duties going

12.5% to a mission field

12.5% to local ministries

 

However, that is just me, and I also believe that a person should give offerings as well as tithings.

I believe all of your tithe should go to your local church. If you don't like how they spend it, then get more involved with business meetings and make suggestions on how the money should be spent. My wife and I give at least 10% of our income to our church. The church, in turn, takes our money and puts it with the other members money and does a lot of good work. We support 33 missionary's worldwide, have a foodbank that is totally funded by the church, and have several other projects and activities that would not be possible if all the members used the "spread the wealth" mentality while tithing. We have a full time pastor, and even more important, a full time youth pastor. This is a great thing. he stays involved with our kids, and is even able to go to school and have lunch with them on occasion. Being that we are in a depressed rural area, one of the best uses of our money is our bus ministry. We have 7 busses that run, go on bus visitation every Sat morning, and provide the bus kids with a great breakfast every Sunday morning before Sunday School. The local church, IMO, is the best resourse to utilize the funds God has blessed us all with.

As far as extra offerings such as a love offering or a collection for a specific purpose, they are just that - extra. These should not be considered a part of your normal tithe.

I do not believe that our "giving" under the New Covenant is the same as the tithing commandments/requirements that the nation of Israel followed under the Old Covenant.

 

Maybe someone can enlighten me, but I don't recall any commandment in the 27 books of the New Testament that tells us to give 10% of our earnings to the church. Maybe somebody can help me there.

 

More on this later...

Tithing was an agricultural term and a principle of Mosaic Law. By failing to tithe to the temple storerooms, a Jew was breaking a law. There is not a single Old Testament passage in which tithing is not discussed in the context of produced products. Malachi has a vivid discussion of this.

 

In the New Testament, the "giving" of money is discussed. It is always discussed, particularly in both letters to the Corinthians, in the context of giving out of joy and love from the heart, and according to one's ability. No set formula is adopted. In the New Testament passages where the word "tithe" is referenced, it is always referencing back to the old Mosaic law and the tithing of agricultural stores. See Matthew 23:23, where the lawyers are rebuked because they tithe their share of spices, but are not generous or loving.

 

Tithing was like all other aspects of "the law," including circumcision, the sacrifice of animals, the shunning of certain foods, etc., in that the New Covenant freed us from those legalisms, even though Jesus said they were worthy of consideration and respect. The clear message of the Pauline letters is that the "giving" of money is to be out of humility and joy, and according to ability. Had the "tithing" of 10% of our income been something Jesus, or even Paul, had felt we were called to do, you can betcha it would have been in there.

 

I give 10% of my gross to a combination of my church and various other established ministries, and give even more to the needy and down-on-their-luck. For me, the 10% is just a nice even figure that keeps me in the habit of giving regularly. I'm also afraid of God's smiting in the story of Acts 5.

Tithing was an agricultural term and a principle of Mosaic Law. By failing to tithe to the temple storerooms, a Jew was breaking a law. There is not a single Old Testament passage in which tithing is not discussed in the context of produced products. Malachi has a vivid discussion of this.

 

In the New Testament, the "giving" of money is discussed. It is always discussed, particularly in both letters to the Corinthians, in the context of giving out of joy and love from the heart, and according to one's ability. No set formula is adopted. In the New Testament passages where the word "tithe" is referenced, it is always referencing back to the old Mosaic law and the tithing of agricultural stores. See Matthew 23:23, where the lawyers are rebuked because they tithe their share of spices, but are not generous or loving.

 

Tithing was like all other aspects of "the law," including circumcision, the sacrifice of animals, the shunning of certain foods, etc., in that the New Covenant freed us from those legalisms, even though Jesus said they were worthy of consideration and respect. The clear message of the Pauline letters is that the "giving" of money is to be out of humility and joy, and according to ability. Had the "tithing" of 10% of our income been something Jesus, or even Paul, had felt we were called to do, you can betcha it would have been in there.

 

I give 10% of my gross to a combination of my church and various other established ministries, and give even more to the needy and down-on-their-luck. For me, the 10% is just a nice even figure that keeps me in the habit of giving regularly. I'm also afraid of God's smiting in the story of Acts 5.

 

:thumb:

 

I don't have a problem with giving...I have a problem with people who try to teach that we, as Christians, are commanded to give 10% of our income to our "church". That simply isn't true.

 

I have a hard time believing that God would want a person who couldn't afford 10% to give that and live in need as a result. Likewise, I have a hard time believing that God would find it acceptable that a person who could afford 40% was giving 10%.

 

As you said, its about giving according to each person's ability...not some set quota that makes people feel good about themselves. I'd be curious to know how this teaching infiltrated the church.

Jesus talks about the poor widow, who dropped her last two coins into the pot. Give what you can and give with a joyful heart. 10% is the Old Testament standard, but a person should give as they feel lead.

 

Glad you are here. There are two rules here, 1) obey all rules. Barney :popcorn:

I believe that tithing is a combination of time, talent and treasure. Giving 10% alone is not sufficient, IMO. But, I do feel that Wyrostek is correct in that tithing should not be limited to one's church alone. If there's a need in your community that needs addressing, I believe it's perfectly acceptable to divert some or all of your tighing toward those needs, even if your church isn't participating.

I believe that tithing is a combination of time, talent and treasure. Giving 10% alone is not sufficient, IMO. But, I do feel that Wyrostek is correct in that tithing should not be limited to one's church alone. If there's a need in your community that needs addressing, I believe it's perfectly acceptable to divert some or all of your tighing toward those needs, even if your church isn't participating.

 

To me, that is seperate from tithing. That is, IMO, an offering. Your tithe should still go into the storehouse (local church) to be used for greater good. There is certainly nothing wrong with donating or giving of your time to worthwhile social or community groups, but that really needs to be set apart from what you are giving to God. My wife's favorite charity is St. Jude's. (Mine is the Cleveland Browns) St. Jude's is a great thing and provide for services I wish we didn't need, but the funds that go to them are extra and above the tithing I feel is required to go to your local church. I feel the same way about televangelism. Some of these guys are the real deal and the money sent to them goes to a great work, but they are not the ones that will be sitting with you in the ER at 2am when a family member has had an accident or you would ask to preach a loved ones funeral. It will be your local preacher.

To me, that is seperate from tithing. That is, IMO, an offering. Your tithe should still go into the storehouse (local church) to be used for greater good. There is certainly nothing wrong with donating or giving of your time to worthwhile social or community groups, but that really needs to be set apart from what you are giving to God. My wife's favorite charity is St. Jude's. (Mine is the Cleveland Browns) St. Jude's is a great thing and provide for services I wish we didn't need, but the funds that go to them are extra and above the tithing I feel is required to go to your local church. I feel the same way about televangelism. Some of these guys are the real deal and the money sent to them goes to a great work, but they are not the ones that will be sitting with you in the ER at 2am when a family member has had an accident or you would ask to preach a loved ones funeral. It will be your local preacher.

 

Where does the "tithing to your local church" teaching find its foundation in the Bible?

Where does the "tithing to your local church" teaching find its foundation in the Bible?

 

Excellent question.

For example, Church X is taking its youth on a "mission trip" (my experience is that these are much more social in nature with a little painting or raking to justify the "project"). While travelling along in the church bus listening to music through headphones (most likely not gospel music), the bus surely passes many in true need. I am troubled by this and I would think many others are, too.

 

I quibble with this. As someone who is involved in Missions and leading mission at our church we try to do the opposite. We also don't do youth only trips- our trips are open to everyone. We built a house from scratch in Juarez, Mexico in December of 2007 and are going to New Orleans in June. We built a Habitat for Humanity house in our parking lot last summer that was sent to Fleming County to a family in need. We make sure we partner with ministries who will use our talents fully and keep us busy. If you feel this is the case in your church I implore you to find out more information about the trip and what the group will be doing on the trip. I even challenge you to go on one as a sponsor before you pass judgment.

 

There is no doubt there are some short term missions trips that can seem more like vacations, but with proper leadership and discernment in choosing who to partner with they can be life changing experiences for every who goes and everyone who helps them get there. I have seen what our trip did for our church and the people who went- many are going on our trip this summer- and the impact is incredible. I think there is something to be said for getting out into a different culture and just realizing how big and awesome God is that gives a person a different POV and a bigger vision for their life. It's amazing when we came back how it translated into more work for the community and more support for our missions program.

 

I'm a big time advocate for short-term trips and missions in general- it's truly my passion and my ministry.

I quibble with this. As someone who is involved in Missions and leading mission at our church we try to do the opposite. We also don't do youth only trips- our trips are open to everyone. We built a house from scratch in Juarez, Mexico in December of 2007 and are going to New Orleans in June. We built a Habitat for Humanity house in our parking lot last summer that was sent to Fleming County to a family in need. We make sure we partner with ministries who will use our talents fully and keep us busy. If you feel this is the case in your church I implore you to find out more information about the trip and what the group will be doing on the trip. I even challenge you to go on one as a sponsor before you pass judgment.

 

There is no doubt there are some short term missions trips that can seem more like vacations, but with proper leadership and discernment in choosing who to partner with they can be life changing experiences for every who goes and everyone who helps them get there. I have seen what our trip did for our church and the people who went- many are going on our trip this summer- and the impact is incredible. I think there is something to be said for getting out into a different culture and just realizing how big and awesome God is that gives a person a different POV and a bigger vision for their life. It's amazing when we came back how it translated into more work for the community and more support for our missions program.

 

I'm a big time advocate for short-term trips and missions in general- it's truly my passion and my ministry.

 

I'm sure that some of these mission trips, including yours, do a lot of good.

 

On the other hand, let me describe one such mission trip that one of my nieces attended that was sponsored by one of Lexington's larger protestant churches.

 

The trip was for high school and college age individuals. The "mission field" was Panama City, Florida. The time was the week of spring break for many colleges and high schools. The mission was to take vans and hang around the beach and to give rides back to the hotel/motel to those who were loaded with alcohol and/or drugs. I suppose some would see this as a true "mission trip" but I would not be among them. I see it as a spring break trip to the beach that was tax deductible for the parents of the "vacationers".

 

I could describe others but this one is probably the most "creative".

I'm sure that some of these mission trips, including yours, do a lot of good.

 

On the other hand, let me describe one such mission trip that one of my nieces attended that was sponsored by one of Lexington's larger protestant churches.

 

The trip was for high school and college age individuals. The "mission field" was Panama City, Florida. The time was the week of spring break for many colleges and high schools. The mission was to take vans and hang around the beach and to give rides back to the hotel/motel to those who were loaded with alcohol and/or drugs. I suppose some would see this as a true "mission trip" but I would not be among them. I see it as a spring break trip to the beach that was tax deductible for the parents of the "vacationers".

 

I could describe others but this one is probably the most "creative".

 

Yeah I wouldn't call that a mission trip per se. I mean it's good in one sense, but I think they could have also done some effective outreach to poorer areas of the city or worked on a building project. Fortunately (depending on your point-of-view) I lead in a non-denominational church so we have complete freedom to go and support whomever we feel led to support. Denominations sometimes are tied to specific ministries.

 

But point taken! That then is where you have to be discerning with your giving. And also something, if I attended that church, I would have wanted to question the leadership about.

I believe that tithing is a combination of time, talent and treasure. Giving 10% alone is not sufficient, IMO. But, I do feel that Wyrostek is correct in that tithing should not be limited to one's church alone. If there's a need in your community that needs addressing, I believe it's perfectly acceptable to divert some or all of your tighing toward those needs, even if your church isn't participating.

 

:thumb:Sums up my feeling exactly.