It looks like almost everyone agrees this is one of the worst decisions the KHSAA has made. What can the teams that are being victimized by this do?

 

So how do they decide who gets to play? The team the beat in the semi's? Thats not fair to the team they beat in the round of 8 or 16, the chain keeps going. One person does not win a football state championship.

If Im not mistaken...the kids in question at Western first played at Shawnee last year, then transferred to Iroquois at some point in time...THEN went to Western.

That is correct Holtz, but what everyone is missing is that the players in question BOTH moved into Western's resides area over the summer, well before the start of school. The fact they played at Shawnee last season is irrelevant after they moved into Western's resides area, as far as being eligible.

 

Western's AD had to be responsible somehow after the paperwork failed to get to Shawnee after Iroquois had signed off on the transfers. Jerry Wyman's people then sent the paperwork through to the KHSAA without catching the error. Wyman in the meantime told the Western AD that the players were "good to go" on the 1st day of school. The Western AD then told Coach Boyd the players were OK. Although one of the players was injured (from a basketball game over the summer) and didn't play until the 3rd game.

 

Meanwhile Shawnee, knowing the paperwork never reached them, tried to wait until Western had played all their district games before going to the KHSAA, hoping Western would have to forfeit ALL their district wins and miss the payoffs altogether, but they jumped the gun and apparently forgot Valley was a district game for Western. The KHSAA called Western and informed them that there were questions raised on 2 players. Western immediately sat them out, and didn't return them to the field until they were ruled eligible by the KHSAA 2 weeks ago.

 

Both player’s ineligibility, and Western forfeiting games, were because of a paperwork error, not kids or coaches "dealing dirty".

In my opinion, any team that breaks KHSAA rules knowingly, should not be allowed to compete for its championship. I really do not know if they knew or not, but with Western having back-to-back seasons with games being forfeited, it does not look good on their part.

 

You do not want to punish the kids on Western's team, but there must be something done to ensure that coaches/AD's/Principals are "for sure" when they let kids play for their school.

 

If you are in the KHSAA, you have to play by their rules. There may be a few that people do not agree with, but they are there so EVERYBODY must follow them.

Thank you ThrowItDeep! That is my main point...Rules are made to be followed. I realize that the kids should not be punished as they did nothing wrong. In fact the transfers did everything right, they even moved into Western's district. However, if the school is not going to hold it's administration responsible for their actions, like a second straight season of having to forfeit football games due to playing an ineligible player, then what message is the school sending. Players have to start taking these things into account when "choosing" the school they will attend. I totally agree with Shawnee as they continually have their best athletes taken from them by other schools (e.g. I believe the kids name was Brooks that transfered to Doss for Basketball). The problem was the Western jumped the gun by allowing the kids to play. They should have had KHSAA approval before playing the players. I know Jerry Wyman is in charge of JCPS Athletics but the ultimate ruling on player eligibility comes from the KHSAA not JCPS or the courts as was the case with Highlands in 2004. Maybe the transfer process needs to be beefed up so we look further into the background of each player that is transfering to prevent something like this from happening. My question is why didn't Coach Boyd or the players speak up about them attending Shawnee so that this never happened? That is the part that is rather questionable. When are the adults in this situation going to be held accountable?

In my opinion, any team that breaks KHSAA rules knowingly, should not be allowed to compete for its championship. I really do not know if they knew or not, but with Western having back-to-back seasons with games being forfeited, it does not look good on their part.

 

You do not want to punish the kids on Western's team, but there must be something done to ensure that coaches/AD's/Principals are "for sure" when they let kids play for their school.

 

If you are in the KHSAA, you have to play by their rules. There may be a few that people do not agree with, but they are there so EVERYBODY must follow them.

 

 

But, the school did NOT break the rules knowingly, from all information I've been able to find. JCPS ruled the kids eligible.

Exactly rockmom. That's why I put "knowingly" in there. There are going to be mistakes that happen, and the punishment for those mistakes are the ones that Western is suffering now.

 

I don't know if they meant to or not, but the fact that this is the 2nd year in a row leads me to believe that the administration needs to be "strongly reminded" of the rules that the KHSAA have in place.

 

If they did knowingly break rules or if any team or coach breaks rules or defies KHSAA rules to their face, they should not be allowed to compete for the KHSAA state title.

Like I said before apparently we need to beef up the transfer procedures and possibly just eliminate JCPS from the loop...All ruling must be made by the KHSAA anyways so I don't know why the players were played without state approval. Coach Boyd knew the players played for him at Shawnee and should have information the Athletic Director so the players would not be played until they had been properly approved.

When is this state going to punish people for not following rules? Highlands...played ineligible players on thier way to the state championship game and were still allowed to play. What message does that send to the programs around the state that follow the rules.

It's been said before but; the only real victim in that mess was Highlands. However that's not what this thread is about.

Home-field advantage meant nothing to the Warriors as they have only played 2 home games this season anyways.

Thankfully, Trinity has no such problem, but a team/school like Western depends on home football gates to fund not only it's own football program, but most the other sports as well. I don't know if you have priced those new light color, black lace Nike footballs or new revolution helmets, they don't come cheap.

From what I have heard a great deal of Western's athletic budget comes directly from the school budget that is normally used for items such as books. Therefore this isn't much of an issue. If this was an issue they would have made sure to schedule the Atherton game which was scheduled to be at Western. I would really hope that this is not true but I have heard this from more than one individual associated with the Western High School Athletic Programs.

Exactly rockmom. That's why I put "knowingly" in there. There are going to be mistakes that happen, and the punishment for those mistakes are the ones that Western is suffering now.

 

I don't know if they meant to or not, but the fact that this is the 2nd year in a row leads me to believe that the administration needs to be "strongly reminded" of the rules that the KHSAA have in place.

 

If they did knowingly break rules or if any team or coach breaks rules or defies KHSAA rules to their face, they should not be allowed to compete for the KHSAA state title.

 

 

ThrowItDeep, we agree 100%. I agree with the post from Mike Check "Jerry Wyman made the paperwork mistake and he is calling in a favor to the KHSAA." Western should not be allowed to play if a violation was made knowingly or not. Breckinridge County may not have the best record but they played by the rules and should be allowed to play.

Does anyone know the result of the coin toss?

Western will be the 3 seed and travel to North Bullitt...Atherton is the 4 seed and will travel to Bullitt East

That is correct Holtz, but what everyone is missing is that the players in question BOTH moved into Western's resides area over the summer, well before the start of school. The fact they played at Shawnee last season is irrelevant after they moved into Western's resides area, as far as being eligible.

 

Western's AD had to be responsible somehow after the paperwork failed to get to Shawnee after Iroquois had signed off on the transfers. Jerry Wyman's people then sent the paperwork through to the KHSAA without catching the error. Wyman in the meantime told the Western AD that the players were "good to go" on the 1st day of school. The Western AD then told Coach Boyd the players were OK. Although one of the players was injured (from a basketball game over the summer) and didn't play until the 3rd game.

 

Meanwhile Shawnee, knowing the paperwork never reached them, tried to wait until Western had played all their district games before going to the KHSAA, hoping Western would have to forfeit ALL their district wins and miss the payoffs altogether, but they jumped the gun and apparently forgot Valley was a district game for Western. The KHSAA called Western and informed them that there were questions raised on 2 players. Western immediately sat them out, and didn't return them to the field until they were ruled eligible by the KHSAA 2 weeks ago.

 

Both player’s ineligibility, and Western forfeiting games, were because of a paperwork error, not kids or coaches "dealing dirty".

 

:thumb: Thanks for info. As I said, I was going off what I heard and read but Im not the guru on this stuff. Some of my info comes from parties not "directly" involved but are closer than I am. I just remember coaching at Iroquois a few years ago we had a player transfer from Butler...thought all the paperwork was good and was told he was cleared...went 4-1 and then when we opened district play against Butler...lo and behold...Butler called someone and all of a sudden that player is ineligible and we had to forfeit those 4 wins. Each AD blamed the other but the bottom line for me was (and still is with a lot of these eligibility issues)...ADs, coaches and principals have a RESPONSIBILITY to make sure everyone is legit and do the right thing for the kid. What hurts is the kids bust their butt to win games only to be slapped in the face because of ridiculous errors by someone.

My question is always "Do these guys handling the paperwork and ruling on eligibility realize that what they do could be the biggest difference in whether a kid goes to college or not??? Or whether a team can feel good about being successful or not??? What do they think this does to their moral (team and player) when their error costs them games and playing time. If JCPS or KHSAA or WHOEVER makes a mistakes...I dont see any punishment on them!! Who suffers?? Again...the players and team. Just sad!

Both player’s ineligibility, and Western forfeiting games, were because of a paperwork error, not kids or coaches "dealing dirty".

 

 

It sounds like these kids only changed schools to play for the coach? That in itself is a little shady. The coach and players knew this could be a problem and it has affected all the teams in District 3 and 4. North Bullitt earned a number 2 spot and they will be playing a team that would have been a number 1. If teams only get a slap on the wrist then what do they have to lose?