That is a little selfish, don't you think?

 

It's pretty much how the vast majority of americans vote.

Christ teaches his disciples to put the wellbeing of others over themselves, and to think of others before thinking of themselves. It is essentially the basic tenet of Christianity. The Royal Law.

 

That is a wonderful idea for individuals but since our country separates church from state it shouldn't apply to government, should it?

Run To State and UKMustangFan...

 

I just read through this whole thread and wanted to say that you both have my full support in your arguements and discussions. Not that it's worth much, but I agree with what you both are saying...completely.

Well it's wrong.

 

This is twice that you have called the Bible wrong...I was under the impression that you were a Christian...

This is twice that you have called the Bible wrong...I was under the impression that you were a Christian...

 

This will totally change the subject of this thread. But just because you are a Christian doesn't mean that you need to do and believe everything the bible says. You can be a Christian without following ever word in there.

This will totally change the subject of this thread. But just because you are a Christian doesn't mean that you need to do and believe everything the bible says. You can be a Christian without following ever word in there.

 

I dare say there are many, many, many on this board that will disagree...I will let them fight this one out.

This will totally change the subject of this thread. But just because you are a Christian doesn't mean that you need to do and believe everything the bible says. You can be a Christian without following ever word in there.

 

I agree, but it is kinda of hard to do it without following the basic principle.

 

As to the separation of church of state I agree with principle whole heartedly, no need for the 10 commandments to be in schools or courthouses, no need to teach creationism in the classrooms, no need for the government to tell me what religion to practice. My post however, was in reference to a statement that said,

 

"Not at all. I care about others, but first and foremost I care about my own personal well-being. I can't support a candidate who is going to cater to the poor and hurt the middle and upper class of society, which is exactly what Obama will do."

 

While I do not advocate a church state tie I do support people whose policies are reflective of the teachings of Jesus. Not the religion of Jesus, but the teachings of Jesus.

I agree, but it is kinda of hard to do it without following the basic principle.

 

As to the separation of church of state I agree with principle whole heartedly, no need for the 10 commandments to be in schools or courthouses, no need to teach creationism in the classrooms, no need for the government to tell me what religion to practice. My post however, was in reference to a statement that said,

 

"Not at all. I care about others, but first and foremost I care about my own personal well-being. I can't support a candidate who is going to cater to the poor and hurt the middle and upper class of society, which is exactly what Obama will do."

 

While I do not advocate a church state tie I do support people whose policies are reflective of the teachings of Jesus. Not the religion of Jesus, but the teachings of Jesus.

Acemona, allow me to step in here for a second. I see nothing wrong with what UKMustangFan is saying and for some to attack him on the basis of religion about a political issue is totally unfair. It cries out the lack of any real argument on the behalf of those that disagree since it isn't a religious argument he's trying to make. How do you know he doesn't give more to charity than you folks do? You have no clue one way or the other. As I stated, we feel as though we are taxed enough and don't agree with a lot of the programs already in place and don't want t see more of them in place (universal health-care comes to mind) that will take more of our hard earned money. Another thing I don't like is the government telling me who to give MY money to more and more, I'd rather make that decision myself.

Run To State and UKMustangFan...

 

I just read through this whole thread and wanted to say that you both have my full support in your arguements and discussions. Not that it's worth much, but I agree with what you both are saying...completely.

:thumb:

...should not be looking for the government to take the fruits of somebody else's labor and simply hand it to them.

 

I am always interested in that type of statement. Did you go to school? If you did, someone outside your family helped pay for it (and that holds true for public and private schools). Do you drive on roads? If you do, someone helps pay for it. Do you receive mail? If you do, it is paid for collectively. Do you drink clean water? The projects are usually paid for by collective government action. The list could go on for a long time. We ALL benefit from government actions that take part of our money and pay for things that serve the collective good. Some of them we like to pay for, others we oppose paying for. The decisions about what we will pay for through collective action are what elections are all about. The problem I have with the modern conservative movement is that it seems to look at ANY tax as confiscating the fruits of their labor. What taxes really are is what we pay for the collective benefits we all receive. We decide what those benefits will be through our elected represenatives.

I am always interested in that type of statement. Did you go to school? If you did, someone outside your family helped pay for it (and that holds true for public and private schools). Do you drive on roads? If you do, someone helps pay for it. Do you receive mail? If you do, it is paid for collectively. Do you drink clean water? The projects are usually paid for by collective government action. The list could go on for a long time. We ALL benefit from government actions that take part of our money and pay for things that serve the collective good. Some of them we like to pay for, others we oppose paying for. The decisions about what we will pay for through collective action are what elections are all about. The problem I have with the modern conservative movement is that it seems to look at ANY tax as confiscating the fruits of their labor. What taxes really are is what we pay for the collective benefits we all receive. We decide what those benefits will be through our elected represenatives.

You forgot to ask one important question. Do I pay taxes? Answer: Yes and so did my parents and grandparents before them. We have not simply taken the fruits of other people's labor out of a sense of entitlement.

 

My statement was clearly aimed at the tendency of liberals like Obama to tax people like me at ever higher rates, who are willing to work and pay for vital government services, to buy the political allegiance of the parasites among us who are unwilling to work and pay their fair share of taxes.

 

Those who are capable of helping themselves should, in fact, help themselves. I am tired of people trying to justify incorporating thinly veiled marxist principles into this nation's tax policies.

Acemona, allow me to step in here for a second. I see nothing wrong with what UKMustangFan is saying and for some to attack him on the basis of religion about a political issue is totally unfair. It cries out the lack of any real argument on the behalf of those that disagree since it isn't a religious argument he's trying to make. How do you know he doesn't give more to charity than you folks do? You have no clue one way or the other. As I stated, we feel as though we are taxed enough and don't agree with a lot of the programs already in place and don't want t see more of them in place (universal health-care comes to mind) that will take more of our hard earned money. Another thing I don't like is the government telling me who to give MY money to more and more, I'd rather make that decision myself.

 

I'll disagree with one thing. As long as we are running a deficit, we are not being taxed enough. Every dollar spent is a tax on someone. It is either someone paying taxes now, or some who will pay taxes in the future. For most of the past twenty-eight years, we have spent money like drunk sailors and sent the bill to our kids. How we spend our money should be a legitimate topic for debate. Whether or not to pay for what we spend should not.

You forgot to ask one important question. Do I pay taxes? Answer: Yes and so did my parents and grandparents before them. We have not simply taken the fruits of other people's labor out of a sense of entitlement.

 

My statement was clearly aimed at the tendency of liberals like Obama to tax people like me at ever higher rates, who are willing to work and pay for vital government services, to buy the political allegiance of the parasites among us who are unwilling to work and pay their fair share of taxes.

 

Those who are capable of helping themselves should, in fact, help themselves. I am tired of people trying to justify incorporating thinly veiled marxist principles into this nation's tax policies.

 

Maybe we run in different circles. I do not know even one adult that is capable of working that does not work and pay at least some federal tax. (I'll leave retirees out of this discussion.) It really comes down to your definition of fair. Is it "fair" that capital gains, regardless of how large, are taxed at a lower rate than a minimum wage job? The structure of the tax system is a legitimate debate. I don't anttopay any more in taxes than I have to. I just don't feel over taxed as long as we are running the deficit we now have.

Maybe we run in different circles. I do not know even one adult that is capable of working that does not work and pay at least some federal tax. (I'll leave retirees out of this discussion.) It really comes down to your definition of fair. Is it "fair" that capital gains, regardless of how large, are taxed at a lower rate than a minimum wage job? The structure of the tax system is a legitimate debate. I don't anttopay any more in taxes than I have to. I just don't feel over taxed as long as we are running the deficit we now have.

:lol: How many people do you know who work for minimum wage and pay federal income taxes? Do they work 24 hours a day? (I live with three college students who do not earn enough to pay federal income taxes.)

 

I choose not to associate with deadbeats who choose not to work but I ran into them on a regular basis when I lived and worked in eastern Kentucky. When welfare reform became a reality, many of the same people grabbed their backs and managed to get on SSI or other no-work programs to avoid work. If you know no such people, then consider yourself lucky because they do exist.

 

The bottom 50 percent of wage earners in this country pay just over 3 percent of all federal income taxes paid. Many of them pay no federal income taxes. Just because you do not know any of them does not mean that they are not there.

:lol: How many people do you know who work for minimum wage and pay federal income taxes? Do they work 24 hours a day? (I live with three college students who do not earn enough to pay federal income taxes.)

 

I choose not to associate with deadbeats who choose not to work but I ran into them on a regular basis when I lived and worked in eastern Kentucky. When welfare reform became a reality, many of the same people grabbed their backs and managed to get on SSI or other no-work programs to avoid work. If you know no such people, then consider yourself lucky because they do exist.

 

The bottom 50 percent of wage earners in this country pay just over 3 percent of all federal income taxes paid. Many of them pay no federal income taxes. Just because you do not know any of them does not mean that they are not there.

 

If income taxes were the only taxes paid you're argument MIGHT have some validity. The current social security/Medicare tax rate is 15.3 percent. The minimum wage worker pays that rate. The current capital gains rate is 15 percent. QED