So you support making abortion illegal under any circumstances, right?

 

I admit to it being an ugly battle within myself. The logical side of me states clearly that you can't have it both ways. If abortion is murder, then it is murder in all cases. The emotional side of me feels for the woman that has been a victim of rape and is pregnant as a result.

 

Refering back to your second point, I agree that if abortion is illegal that many would take better measures against unwanted pregnancy. I do NOT think it will affect the number of people having children that cannot afford them.

 

On your third point, because of my dilemma I do not usually consider stance on abortion as one of my main reasons in supporting a candidate. Maybe one day I will be able to find peace between the logically and emotional sides of myself and then it would make more of a difference.

 

I truly appreciate your willingness to discuss the issue with me.

1. I do support infanticide being illegal under all circumstances. While I feel bad for the rape victim, I only support abortion in the event of the woman's life being in danger (if you want to get in this, I have been further researching my position on this (just as a forewarning :lol:)) My father put it this way- when there is a rape, do we take the rapist and rip his arms and legs off, and jam a pair of scissors into his head? No. Furthermore, I was reading something (can't remember where) about a grown woman who had been born because her mother had been raped. She said "My father the rapist didn't make me. God did"

 

2. You are possibly (unfortunately) right that it won't prevent pregnancies. But I can't justify keeping something morally wrong legal because it will still go on if it is illegal.

 

3. :thumb: Nothing I can do there, that's on you. But I know you will keep on open mind on it and come to the right conclusion eventually.

And that is my point. Some of the same people who argue that women should have the unfettered right to abort an innocent life because it is part of their own body will argue in favor of mandatory seatbelt laws and against motorcycle helmets. Logic has nothing to do with these positions.

 

Kind of like those who say they are "Pro-life" yet support capital punishment?

A post in another thread got me thinking about this issue (and if its already been beat up in another thread, a mod should delete this thread). My query: If you support abortion using the logic that a woman has the right to do what she wants to her body, can you then logically be opposed to prostitution? I don't think so, but I'd be interested in hearing from those that support abortion. I think one could be on safer ground, from a logic standpoint, opposing abortion but in favor of prostitution. One could oppose abortion, not because one is against a woman having the right to do what she wants to her body, but rather because abortion kills another living person. Whereas, prostitution does not kill or even harm (arguably) any one other than the woman choosing to engage in that activity. Your thoughts?

Now who have you an idea like this? :sssh:

I don't disagree with anything you have said here. Let me ask you (all of P/R really), is it logical to argue that abortion cannot be the choice of the mother, because life occurs upon conception, except in cases of rape, incest, or harm to the mother? Doesn't the baby in those exceptions still have the right to be born?

 

I touched on this in a previous thread, probably the same thread where LN got the idea for this one. This is my one stumbling block between pro-choice and pro-life. To me, if it is a life and has a right to be born, then it is and has that same right under all circumstances. Does that mean I would support making abortion illegal, then, if there were no exceptions? I still have trouble with that because I sometimes think that in the situation of rape, it should be the woman's choice. Too, let's say that we do ban abortion in all cases except for those previously stated. There are still several problems. First of all, there might be a greater number of false rapes reported. Secondly, there are many women who are raped that will not report the rape, though would still choose to have the abortion. I am not saying that they shouldn't report the rape, just that they choose not to...and I, assume, then would likely be forced into having the child. Let's not even get into the problems with illegal abortions that will occur anyway.

 

I know that what I have posted seems like rambling...but that is the constant battle in my mind over abortion. Deep down I want to be pro-life. But...my head and my heart cannot come to an agreement over it.

 

I am pro-life in all instances except when the mother's life is in jeopardy. In cases of rape, as cch said, it's a truly awful thing that has happened, but that child still deserves to life their life.

 

In cases where the mother's life in jeopardy, I'm not saying the child doesn't deserve to live, they most certainly do, but I feel in any instance that someone is dying, you must do anything necessary to save that person. If that means killing their unborn child, as terrible and saddening as it is to me, than so be it.

 

Being raised Catholic my entire life, I've always felt abortion is/was a serious issue that never has gotten the attention it deserves in this country. Because of my religious upbringing, it's the most important factor when it comes to voting for me. I cannot in good conscious support a candidate who feels the killing of unborn babies should be an accepted practice.

Kind of like those who say they are "Pro-life" yet support capital punishment?

 

I think there is a definite distinction between the two actually. As I've said, I'm pro-life, always have been, always will be. I'm also in favor of capital punishment. If someone has been found guilty of a crime so hideous that they are sentenced to death, I feel that person "threw away" their right to live. I know we aren't supposed to judge others, that's God's job, but I can't support paying money through taxes to keep murders alive in prison for "X" amount of years....I'd rather have my money going to government-funded programs, and I think most know how I feel about those.

At this point I don't have a problem with prostitution if it is regulated. Not saying I'd participate in it...but I can't say that I'm against others doing it if they want to.

I think there is a definite distinction between the two actually. As I've said, I'm pro-life, always have been, always will be. I'm also in favor of capital punishment. If someone has been found guilty of a crime so hideous that they are sentenced to death, I feel that person "threw away" their right to live. I know we aren't supposed to judge others, that's God's job, but I can't support paying money through taxes to keep murders alive in prison for "X" amount of years....I'd rather have my money going to government-funded programs, and I think most know how I feel about those.

 

I'm pretty sure it costs nearly as much or more tax dollars to put someone to death than it does to keep them in prison.

 

Actually, here is a link saying that. It's a PDF file...

 

"The death penalty system is clearly more expensive than a system handling similar cases with a lesser punishment".

 

Costs of the Death Penalty and Related Issues

Kind of like those who say they are "Pro-life" yet support capital punishment?

Kind of not like that at all. The the premeditated taking of an innocent life is not the moral equivalent of a convicted murderer being condemned to death. The victims of abortions have no opportunity to defend themselves and they have committed no crime.

I don't disagree with anything you have said here. Let me ask you (all of P/R really), is it logical to argue that abortion cannot be the choice of the mother, because life occurs upon conception, except in cases of rape, incest, or harm to the mother? Doesn't the baby in those exceptions still have the right to be born?

 

I touched on this in a previous thread, probably the same thread where LN got the idea for this one. This is my one stumbling block between pro-choice and pro-life. To me, if it is a life and has a right to be born, then it is and has that same right under all circumstances. Does that mean I would support making abortion illegal, then, if there were no exceptions? I still have trouble with that because I sometimes think that in the situation of rape, it should be the woman's choice. Too, let's say that we do ban abortion in all cases except for those previously stated. There are still several problems. First of all, there might be a greater number of false rapes reported. Secondly, there are many women who are raped that will not report the rape, though would still choose to have the abortion. I am not saying that they shouldn't report the rape, just that they choose not to...and I, assume, then would likely be forced into having the child. Let's not even get into the problems with illegal abortions that will occur anyway.

 

I know that what I have posted seems like rambling...but that is the constant battle in my mind over abortion. Deep down I want to be pro-life. But...my head and my heart cannot come to an agreement over it.

In a nutshell, no it is not logical to distinguish between causes of a pregnency. Either the unborn child is a person whose life deserves the protection of law or it is not.

While I am not as adamantly anti-abortion as some (I find it morally repugnant when used as a convenient way to eliminate the consequences of risky and selfish behavior) I can't see the moral equivalent between abortion and the death penalty.

 

1. What appeal process does the condemned have in abortion?

 

2. While it has yet to be proven that any innocent person has been wrongly executed what crime or crimes have any abortion victims ever been convicted of?

I'm pretty sure it costs nearly as much or more tax dollars to put someone to death than it does to keep them in prison.

 

Actually, here is a link saying that. It's a PDF file...

 

 

 

Costs of the Death Penalty and Related Issues

 

That very well may be the case....I don't want a penny of my money going to prolonging the life of murders though, I'd rather it be spent on arranging their meeting with God. I know that sounds cruel, but that's how I feel.

I know that we have beaten it to death before, but I'd be interested to do a "Pro-Life and the Death Penalty" thread again. Mods, will we allow it? I love finally getting to argue with my fellow pesky conservatives. :lol:

I think there is a definite distinction between the two actually. As I've said, I'm pro-life, always have been, always will be. I'm also in favor of capital punishment. If someone has been found guilty of a crime so hideous that they are sentenced to death, I feel that person "threw away" their right to live. I know we aren't supposed to judge others, that's God's job, but I can't support paying money through taxes to keep murders alive in prison for "X" amount of years....I'd rather have my money going to government-funded programs, and I think most know how I feel about those.

 

I didn't even read your post, and don't need to. Stop playing semantics. A life is a life is a life. When you start making distinctions between the worthiness of one person to live as opposed to another's, you have completely ceased being "pro-life."

 

Ask LBBC. I even made him think twice about this logical conundrum (yours, not mine).

I know that we have beaten it to death before, but I'd be interested to do a "Pro-Life and the Death Penalty" thread again. Mods, will we allow it? I love finally getting to argue with my fellow pesky conservatives. :lol:

 

We've done it, and my argument wins. It is indeed completely, utterly, profoundly illogical to say "I'm pro-life, but I support the death penalty."

We've done it, and my argument wins. It is indeed completely, utterly, profoundly illogical to say "I'm pro-life, but I support the death penalty."

 

Although I find it more completely, utterly, profoundly illogical to say "I support the killing of infants, but I am against the killing of convicted criminals." Either way, I do agree with you here.