HL front page article

[miragesmack]

So the player should only be able to better his situation if a negative change occurs?

 

Lets just suppose a kid went to a parochial grade school for 8 years but his/her parents were unable to afford a Catholic school education for high school so he/she enrolled in a public high school and excelled on the cross country team. After that first year the kids father gets a huge raise and his parents now wish to continue their childs education at a Catholic school. In your world that kid would be inelligible, correct? That student left the public school for financial reasons after all.

 

This part happens thousands of times each year in Louisville. Only 47%-49% of parochial kids go on to catholic high school, and the most often cited reason for doing so is $$$$$.

 

Personally, I think most folks have the money, they just choose to not spend it on school since there is a free option. I didn't work for 11 months a few years back, and I still had my kid in catholic school. I just charged it all on a credit card, :lol: and dealt with it later.

 

These transfer situations lately confuses me very much. It seems a lot like "Big Brother" the way the KHSAA gets into the minds of the players/families, regardless of what the families said or not. Education is most important, but what if you have several choices (like in Louisville) and several are all tied in academics. They say you cannot consider athletics in any way to break the tie! It's borderline ridiculous. Did anyone believe that half of Taylor County's baseball players chose to move to Louisville, then all choose to get their education at PRP, and it had nothing to do with sports? Who coincidently happens to win a state title in baseball?

 

The only solution they would like is to becoome Europe, and play only club sports. No sports in schools.

[Log Mountain Boy]

So the player should only be able to better his situation if a negative change occurs?

 

Lets just suppose a kid went to a parochial grade school for 8 years but his/her parents were unable to afford a Catholic school education for high school so he/she enrolled in a public high school and excelled on the cross country team. After that first year the kids father gets a huge raise and his parents now wish to continue their childs education at a Catholic school. In your world that kid would be inelligible, correct? That student left the public school for financial reasons after all.

 

If he has a legit change of address under the current rules it should be okay. I think if your going to have strict transfer rules then at the least try to help kids that come on hard times. Thats just my way of thinking that under the current regulations it would help somewhat to try to help the unfortunate in some way.

[ladiesbballcoach]

 

The only solution they would like is to becoome Europe, and play only club sports. No sports in schools.

 

I am solely believing that would be the best way. Let schools be academic learning institutes and let athletics be something else.

[BuddyBW]

I am solely believing that would be the best way. Let schools be academic learning institutes and let athletics be something else.

 

But there is so much more to an education than just what's learned inside the classrooms. Yes, you could have similar experiences outside the classroom with club sports, but those cost money to take part in. What do you do about the families who cannot afford to pay to partake in the activities if you separate them from schools?

 

Do you also think that we should remove chess clubs, drama productions, student newspapers, beta club, etc.?

[leatherneck]

I am solely believing that would be the best way. Let schools be academic learning institutes and let athletics be something else.

 

If that is what you think would be best for your school, by all means attend your next school board meeting and propose it. However, I like many, many others think that athletics plays a major, major role in the educational process and can create an atmosphere of success and confidence that spreads into the classroom. If anything, more schools should put more emphasis, not less, on athletics. Winners win in everything they do if properly motivated.

[miragesmack]

I am solely believing that would be the best way. Let schools be academic learning institutes and let athletics be something else.

 

On it's face, and a few years ago, I would have agreed with you. But after seeing the high school experience with my kid (my first time), I believe that sports makes a better student and a better person, especially for the girls.

 

Now I can't speak for the boys, and it appears to be different based on what we see in the news, especially because the money involved in mens sports. However, I have seen that female athletes are often some of the smartest kids in school, with field hockey at the tops for some reason. Female athletes are more driven when they go on to college, and then in the workforce. If schools focus is to educate, which it is, it would seem logical that they would encourage athletics as a way to turn out better students. It just has to be done fairly and correctly.

Edited June 22, 2008 by miragesmack
typo

[ladiesbballcoach]

But there is so much more to an education than just what's learned inside the classrooms. Yes, you could have similar experiences outside the classroom with club sports, but those cost money to take part in. What do you do about the families who cannot afford to pay to partake in the activities if you separate them from schools?

 

Do you also think that we should remove chess clubs, drama productions, student newspapers, beta club, etc.?

 

And athletics is not the only place in a school that those traits can be learned. And yet athletics is where all the problems and a vast amount of money being spent.

[ladiesbballcoach]

If that is what you think would be best for your school, by all means attend your next school board meeting and propose it. However, I like many, many others think that athletics plays a major, major role in the educational process and can create an atmosphere of success and confidence that spreads into the classroom. If anything, more schools should put more emphasis, not less, on athletics. Winners win in everything they do if properly motivated.

 

Was Belicheck properly motivated to cheat?

Was LCA properly motivated to cheat?

Was Scott County properly motivated to do whatever they did for the violations that was put against them in the sports they found violations?

 

 

You said your child couldn't participate in those wonderful activities?

 

My child is learning a bunch through the 7Up Golf Tour and Pepsi Golf tour about discipline, competition, etc, etc. Nothing to do with school.

[ladiesbballcoach]

On it's face, and a few years ago, I would have agreed with you. But after seeing the high school experience with my kid (my first time), I believe that sports makes a better student and a better person, especially for the girls.

 

Now I can't speak for the boys, and it appears to be different based on what we see in the news, especially because the money involved in mens sports. However, I have seen that female athletes are often some of the smartest kids in school, with field hockey at the tops for some reason. Female athletes are more driven when they go on to college, and then in the workforce. If schools focus is to educate, which it is, it would seem logical that they would encourage athletics as a way to turn out better students. It just has to be done fairly and correctly.

 

To paraphrase Sam Elliott in Tombstone, No ONE is saying your child cannot participate in athletics, just not saying they should participate in athletics through schools.

 

Honestly, if it went that route it would be sad.

 

And this whole problem is the ADULTS who cannot control themselves to not bend and push the rules to the point of breaking them and/or simply break them.

 

Too many adults look at the rules and try to figure out what they can do to get past them without breaking them and that is the issue.

 

Along with the ADULTS who simply break them and then scream, "You are penalizing the poor kids, you mean, mean KHSAA."

[leatherneck]

Was Belicheck properly motivated to cheat?

Was LCA properly motivated to cheat?

Was Scott County properly motivated to do whatever they did for the violations that was put against them in the sports they found violations?

 

 

You said your child couldn't participate in those wonderful activities?

 

My child is learning a bunch through the 7Up Golf Tour and Pepsi Golf tour about discipline, competition, etc, etc. Nothing to do with school.

 

Huh? Surely you aren't trying to indict every person that participates in high school athletics by pointing out those example are you? I believe that a huge percentage of people participating in high school athletics do so with integrity and honesty. And for that matter, what violations did Scott County get found guilty of?

 

All I know is that my two sons have learned a lot of very valuable lessons by participating in football at Highlands. And many, many parents in Ft. Thomas feel the same way that I do. If you don't think that high school athletics are valuable, again, attend the school board meeting for your school and suggest they eliminate their participation in high school athletics.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Huh? Surely you aren't trying to indict every person that participates in high school athletics by pointing out those example are you? I believe that a huge percentage of people participating in high school athletics do so with integrity and honesty. And for that matter, what violations did Scott County get found guilty of?

 

All I know is that my two sons have learned a lot of very valuable lessons by participating in football at Highlands. And many, many parents in Ft. Thomas feel the same way that I do. If you don't think that high school athletics are valuable, again, attend the school board meeting for your school and suggest they eliminate their participation in high school athletics.

The lessons learned in athletics could be learned in athletics outside the school building.

 

And maybe should since many adults across the state are ruining it for many kids.

 

I find it sad that adults around this state continue to either boldly break the rules or push the rules to the point of breaking or look for ways around the spirit of the rules.

 

 

In another thread there was a comment made that some of the "minor" sports had had some violations at Scott County. That is all I know about it.

[dennis12b]

What if a child is unhappy in a private school and goes to a public school and have lots of money, does she sit no she don't she was aloud to play. and quess what when she did not start she quit.

[leatherneck]

The lessons learned in athletics could be learned in athletics outside the school building.

 

And maybe should since many adults across the state are ruining it for many kids.

 

I find it sad that adults around this state continue to either boldly break the rules or push the rules to the point of breaking or look for ways around the spirit of the rules.

 

 

In another thread there was a comment made that some of the "minor" sports had had some violations at Scott County. That is all I know about it.

 

Let me know how your next school board meeting goes. Surely if you feel so strongly about your point, you'll speak up.

[miragesmack]

Well, my daughter and I just returned from our first college trip, (she's a rising sophomore) and we visited Notre Dame. My belief stated above, about athletics and it's relations to academics, was greatly confirmed, and even enhanced.

 

We met with their admissions director and they (ND specifically, not every other school) view high school student athletes in the highest regard, assuming they make the grades as well. They believe that a student who pursues every opportunity, ie sports, clubs, service work, etc, is a student who is trying to get the most out of life. They said they want interesting students, not just braniacs. They admitted many other schools are solely interested in grades only, which is fine for them, however they do it differently at ND. This explains the 2006 admissions info I found online for ND, where a kid with a perfect 1600 on his SAT was denied entrance. The director wouldn't state specifically, but it was likely because that student's sole focus was on academics only, not the other things life has to offer. That students presumably went on to great accomplishments at another school.

 

They also admit a large number of star athletes who simply weren't of the caliber to play D1 there, which is why intermurals are viewed as very important at ND. Seventy-five percent of their students played sports in high school. For example, their intermural football plays full contact in helmets and pads, with the championship game in ND stadium under the lights. They also provide funds for their club sports (like field hockey) and pay for their transportation, even across the country. My daughter will have that decision if she chooses to go there; be resigned to club field hockey, or likely get a scholarship to a smaller D1 or DII school.

 

So, after this 1st college visit, I feel much more strongly now about my belief in high school athletics.

[kissinger]

Hardly. The KHSAA has fixed it so the Commissioner overrules their own Hearing Officer more than half the time, makes unilateral decisions, then it is THEY who complain when the decision is appealed to court, but even then they still have fixed it so the school is penalized if they play the child even if there is a validly-issued court injunction. It is despotism of the highest order. The only "greater good" is the power grab of the Commissioner and her Department.

 

How have you had so much litigation experience that you don't even know that the Commissioner cannot overrule the hearing officer? Apparently, you must have either 1) had a case that was eventually mooted or 2) won a case at the local level that was never heard. Rather that her overruling as you surmise, her ruling, as I read the rules, comes first in the current process. Then it goes to the board of control, at least for now. That Commissioner, and those that come both before and after her, are empowered AND EXPECTED to uphold the rules as they are printed. They change nearly every year due to the desires of the schools, so you can never fully expect a set of cases to be identical since 1) the circumstances are different in each case, and 2) the rule is a rather moving target and tough to pin down.

 

There is a proposal drawn up by a Commission formed by KBE that has recommended that procedure change to allow her the final answer rather than a politically appointed/elected Board. That would be a tremendous step as I see it to both speed up the cases, and allow for more consistency. My sense of that recommendation would be that the Commissioner's office would be much less likely to overturn the recommendation of an independent hearing officer for fear of costly litigtation, rather than the self-centered power-grab you seem to envision.

 

And remember counselor, as you are well aware, a validly issued injunction that later is declared invalid at the appeals or Supreme Court level is as though it were never issued at all. Don't let the truth get in the way of your far too skewed opinions. That's why there is an appeals court system. If the injunctions survives the test of time and levels of appeal, as I read their rules, no school can be penalized. In addition, from what I have read, there was a 2007 case where the KY Supreme Court upheld not only the procedures uses by KHSAA, but the actual validity of the Transfer Rule in a case in Bullitt County. A case that hopefully, all local circuit judges have reviewed.

 

All this is why, as HDE so aptly points out, it is far better to have an agency managed decision making body in dealing with this, than the potential whim of the legal system trying to decide between a local constituent, and statewide consistent application. IN most cases, as expected, I would think that the local level would side with the local case, and then simply allow the appeals court to be the "second guesser". That way, all is fine at the local level. This is not a negative to any judge anywhere, just an acknowledgement of a potentially flawed system.