FBF015 Posted March 3, 2008 Posted March 3, 2008 I want to start a NEW ASSOCIATION for high school sports here in Kentucky. Any school would be welcomed to join, but certain rules would have to be in place. If you are laughing by now, good for you, but I do wonder, could we ever see a day where we have a new and different association for our high schools? What did we have in place before the KHSAA and did it work for everyone? I am curious to see what people know about this topic.
footballfever Posted March 3, 2008 Posted March 3, 2008 KHSAA has been in existance since 1917. If you find someone with info before that then they are old as dirt.
Ram Posted March 3, 2008 Posted March 3, 2008 One problem with a new association, is that schools in other states will not and can not play schools that are not part of the state association. I know it does not affect games in the state of Kentucky, but you would not be able to play schools from other states. Another problem is: when starting a new association, the teams from the current association will not be able to play teams that are not part of the KHSAA. So, if you start with a hand full of teams, then they will not be able to play many games. It will never happen, but just a few of my thoughts.
cch5432 Posted March 3, 2008 Posted March 3, 2008 KHSAA has been in existance since 1917. If you find someone with info before that then they are old as dirt. We have some people as old as that here. Pepper II just missed the Children's Crusades!
FBF015 Posted March 4, 2008 Author Posted March 4, 2008 1917! Wow, I did not realize that it was that old. That's got to be one of the oldest associations in existance. I wonder if it is true compared to other states?
HitStick Posted March 4, 2008 Posted March 4, 2008 1917! Wow, I did not realize that it was that old. That's got to be one of the oldest associations in existance. I wonder if it is true compared to other states? Plenty of organizations are over 100 years old. 1917 is new compared to some associations.
Terp Posted March 4, 2008 Posted March 4, 2008 One problem with a new association, is that schools in other states will not and can not play schools that are not part of the state association. I know it does not affect games in the state of Kentucky, but you would not be able to play schools from other states. Another problem is: when starting a new association, the teams from the current association will not be able to play teams that are not part of the KHSAA. So, if you start with a hand full of teams, then they will not be able to play many games. It will never happen, but just a few of my thoughts. Ram, I'm not sure this is true at all. For example, the state association in Maryland is called the Maryland Public Secondary Schools Athletic Association. No private schools are members. They maintain a list of non-member schools that are approved for member schools to play. DeMatha H.S. is on that list along with many others. Public schools can elect to play DeMatha if they so choose. DeMatha played St. X, Ohio, on September 2, 2007 without being a member of a state association. There is just an extra form to fill out to schedule an out of state opponent who is not a member of their state association. By the way, the New York organization is called the New York State Public High School Athletic Association, Inc. They have a Friend & Neighbor list of approved schools (I'm guessing including private and Canadian schools). There's no reason KY couldn't do something similar. The National Federation of State High School Associations who approved the state associations has a procedure for other associations to be approved. Those that are not the official association for their state are called Affiliate Associations (ie. Iowa Girls HS Athletic Union). I'd prefer working with KHSAA, but there are several other options for those who feel like it's necessary.
Ram Posted March 4, 2008 Posted March 4, 2008 Ram, I'm not sure this is true at all. For example, the state association in Maryland is called the Maryland Public Secondary Schools Athletic Association. No private schools are members. They maintain a list of non-member schools that are approved for member schools to play. DeMatha H.S. is on that list along with many others. Public schools can elect to play DeMatha if they so choose. DeMatha played St. X, Ohio, on September 2, 2007 without being a member of a state association. There is just an extra form to fill out to schedule an out of state opponent who is not a member of their state association. By the way, the New York organization is called the New York State Public High School Athletic Association, Inc. They have a Friend & Neighbor list of approved schools (I'm guessing including private and Canadian schools). There's no reason KY couldn't do something similar. The National Federation of State High School Associations who approved the state associations has a procedure for other associations to be approved. Those that are not the official association for their state are called Affiliate Associations (ie. Iowa Girls HS Athletic Union). I'd prefer working with KHSAA, but there are several other options for those who feel like it's necessary. You may be right. I have just heard several times that other states like Ohio would not allow schools to play teams that were not part of the state association of their state. That may be wrong information, I have not seen any formal rule for this, just what I have heard. But, I am pretty sure that member schools of the KHSAA are not allowed to play other Kentucky schools that are not members of the KHSAA. Correct me if I am wrong.
Terp Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 The Maryland Public Secondary Schools Athletic Association web site is: http://www.mpssaa.org/ You can see that DeMatha is not a member, so there is clearly a procedure in Ohio to get a game sanctioned against a school that is not a member of their own state's association. The KHSAA rules say that member schools may not play games against other Kentucky schools who are not members of the KHSAA. It also indicates that the commissioner can make exceptions to this rule. (See Article VIII of the Constitution) http://www.khsaa.org/handbook/constitution.pdf What is not absolutely clear to me is the impact of an alternative association being formed as an Affiliate Association under the National Federation. I think that would solve all out of state concerns. The new organization could choose to allow it's members to play KHSAA schools, putting the burden on the KHSAA commissioner to block play between the two groups.
STRIKE3 Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 You may be right. I have just heard several times that other states like Ohio would not allow schools to play teams that were not part of the state association of their state. That may be wrong information, I have not seen any formal rule for this, just what I have heard. But, I am pretty sure that member schools of the KHSAA are not allowed to play other Kentucky schools that are not members of the KHSAA. Correct me if I am wrong. There are several states, which do not permit a contest between opponents, who are not a member of their state associations. Some states vary, the amount of game a team can play and some, even limit the quarters. Need to be more uniformity, in state Rules. The NFHS guidelines, work in conjunction with each state and they could be more of a national adoption, but probably will never occur.
footballfever Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 Plenty of organizations are over 100 years old. 1917 is new compared to some associations. As in????? I'm sure there are several but thats still along time.
kypride Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 Who's joining your new association? Publics? Privates? Anyone who wants to play by the rules?
cut block Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 I think that when the KHSAA was formed in 1917 many things were not considered and correct me if I am wrong but many high school teams played college teams before the KHSAA was established. There are two many privates that have to much power within the association from the top down. The Commisioner is a private school graduate and that has to play a role in the decisions that are made. When the Principals voted for seperation and the body voted it down I think without a doubt it was time for the KHSAA to be desolved as the governing body and the public schools to take over. Once again arrogance in Frankfort took over and threats of lawsuits by Senator Tim Shenhe of Louisville took care of let the people speak about their dissatisfaction. As a coach I take great pride in beating Private schools last year we beat a Louisville team that had players from Indiana, Bullitt County, Shelby County, and of course Jefferson County. However, I do get tired of Alan Donhoff telling people they need to get better and quit whinning. The working hard and getting better comes after years of preparation but do not tell me that having players like Bernard Jackson and Chip Mattingly and those type of public school players that end up at the privates have not had significant impact on X and T. (And by the way Hats off to Louisville Central they get away from the Private Nightmare and what happens you got it State Champs)
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