... because Shockey was clamorning for the ball, and Eli hasn't got the personality to tell him to shut the hell up and stop acting like TO or Ocho Cinco. Maybe this year busts Eli out of his shell, but I'm thinking Shockey's personality will go right back to its earlier overbearing levels once he's back on the field.

 

Problem is, Shockey wasn't doing much clamoring...

I think Sticky needs to get on the phone and get some first-hand facts on what Shockey is really like, so we can settle this argument.

 

I've been giving them to you, unfortunately Jim Schue still thinks he knows what he's talking about...:fire::fire:

 

Shockey's a team guy, no matter what ESPN shows us...

Shockey is still the Giants best TE...the silver lining from the injury is now they know they have two really good TE's.

I've been giving them to you, unfortunately Jim Schue still thinks he knows what he's talking about...:fire::fire:

 

Shockey's a team guy, no matter what ESPN shows us...

 

Look, I understand you have "inside information." Problem is, you might just be being fed an "official line."

 

And I watch plenty of NFL week to week to make decisions independent from ESPN. Heck, I may watch sportscenter or the other ESPN shows 15 minutes a week, at most. The only time I watch ESPN is for a live game.

Torbor could be re-signed for cheap IMO.

 

Mitchell might want a big raise, if so then it's goodbye to him.

 

How do you know if Wilkinson is an upgrade or not? I think he deserves a shot to win the job, as he looked great in his time vs. New England in game 1. He's got a lot of speed and 3 years with the Giants.

 

What reports were you reading about him being a distraction? I know at least one beat writer who said that he doesn't buy the "giants are better without Shockey" crap.

 

Also, Eli himself said that the "Giants offense is better without Shockey theory" is a "stupid theory".

 

Strahan said he'd take 52 Shockey's on his team.

 

Antonio Pierce said that he loves Shockey and that the reason Boss and Matthews play so well is because Shockey has coached them up. He called and text messaged them the entire time he was injured and couldn't make it to the games.

 

Shockey originally wasn't going to be at the Super bowl for two reasons. One, the doctor recommended he not stand on his leg that long. Two, he did not want to be a distraction to the team. In the end, he decided to go because he really wanted to be there.

 

Shockey isn't making a ton of money, the Giants are WAY under the cap, and everyone on the team loves him. There is NO reason to cut him. Cut him or trade him, and what happens if Boss gets hurt? The G-Men are screwed at TE. Depth is a great thing to have in the NFL, and Boss can't get too greedy based on his performances in 5 or 6 games.

 

Sure he can, it's the NFL...:lol:

Look, I understand you have "inside information." Problem is, you might just be being fed an "official line."

 

And I watch plenty of NFL week to week to make decisions independent from ESPN. Heck, I may watch sportscenter or the other ESPN shows 15 minutes a week, at most. The only time I watch ESPN is for a live game.

 

I don't get "official lines". Here's the deal. Eli tries to get Shockey involved because he knows he's such a huge asset. So, Eli forces some things to him. The other thing, when Boss has a route to run, he runs the primary route and runs it to perfection. When Shockey runs a route, he knows that there are options and may not run the primary route. The toughest thing those QB's deal with when it comes to Shockey is that they aren't 100% sure what route (or option) he's going to run.

 

When Shockey looks like he's ticked because the pass was bad and Eli has the "who farted" look on his face, it's simply that Shockey zigged and Eli thought he'd zag...

^Maybe that's why Eli played better down the stretch...he didn't have to force things to a guy that he doesn't know which route he's going to run...

 

Seems like he'd prefer to know where the route is going instead of playing the guessing game. That's all fine and dandy when you've got great Chemistry (like Manning and Harrison for example), but by your post, it would seem to suggest that Eli and Shockey aren't quite on the same mental wave...

^Maybe that's why Eli played better down the stretch...he didn't have to force things to a guy that he doesn't know which route he's going to run...

 

Seems like he'd prefer to know where the route is going instead of playing the guessing game. That's all fine and dandy when you've got great Chemistry (like Manning and Harrison for example), but by your post, it would seem to suggest that Eli and Shockey aren't quite on the same mental wave...

 

I think Eli and Plax see the same thing. Eli and Shockey aren't necessary on the same page. It's much more of them not being on the same page than it is Shockey being a "TO".

 

Also, do we realize how rare it is for a QB and receiver to see the exact same things from different locations...in a split second...

I think Eli and Plax see the same thing. Eli and Shockey aren't necessary on the same page. It's much more of them not being on the same page than it is Shockey being a "TO".

 

Also, do we realize how rare it is for a QB and receiver to see the exact same things from different locations...in a split second...

 

I'm not arguing that point...just that maybe Shockey should run the primary route and all parties involved would be better for it. It's not helping either guy, or the team, if they're out there trying to improv with both doing different things.

 

If that's in fact what's happening, that's not a hard conclusion to draw considering that Kevin Boss looked just as good, if not better than Shockey.

I'm not arguing that point...just that maybe Shockey should run the primary route and all parties involved would be better for it. It's not helping either guy, or the team, if they're out there trying to improv with both doing different things.

 

If that's in fact what's happening, that's not a hard conclusion to draw considering that Kevin Boss looked just as good, if not better than Shockey.

 

I didn't mean to imply that you were arguing. If anything, I think we're agreeing...

 

It's tough to run the primary route when you don't think that it's there. Also, as for Boss's long play. It was "drawn in the dirt". So, the down side is that a play Shockey may have made earlier in the game or more often, Boss only made once.

 

(I know that can be good and bad, I'm just saying)

I didn't mean to imply that you were arguing. If anything, I think we're agreeing...

 

It's tough to run the primary route when you don't think that it's there. Also, as for Boss's long play. It was "drawn in the dirt". So, the down side is that a play Shockey may have made earlier in the game or more often, Boss only made once.

 

(I know that can be good and bad, I'm just saying)

 

Whether it was drawn in the dirt, at least everyone knew the route he was running and where he would be...

 

Also, I don't mean to come off as blaming Shockey for it all...this goes both ways. For every time Eli throws the primary route and Shockey goes elsewhere, you have to believe that the opposite could happen. With the results they got from Boss, I think I'd give it a trial run next season.

Whether it was drawn in the dirt, at least everyone knew the route he was running and where he would be...

 

Also, I don't mean to come off as blaming Shockey for it all...this goes both ways. For every time Eli throws the primary route and Shockey goes elsewhere, you have to believe that the opposite could happen. With the results they got from Boss, I think I'd give it a trial run next season.

 

Personally, I think Shockey and Eli will both have a HUGE year next year.

We can obviously agree to disagree, but let's not pretend that Shockey has been a poster boy. The reports I have read have had him using homophobic language in SI, not participating in voluntary mini camps EVER in a Giant uniform, questioning decisions made by his teammates and coaches and this is the stuff that got reported.

 

His teammates should say good things about him; that is what a teammate does. That does not mean that they agree with all of the decisions he has made. The fact is without Shockey playing, the Giants won the Superbowl. That means that the offense can exist without him and he has more trade value than Kevin Boss does, so why not explore trade options. I do not advocate cutting him, let me make that clear. They can, however, use the threat of release as leverage in renegotiating his contract to make his base salary lower (this is a tactic regularly used by teams like the Patriots, Eagles and Sea Hawks and they are models for how it is done in the NFL).

 

Wilkerson got signficant playing time two years ago and was not impressive, which is why the team signed Mitchell and moved Kiwanuka to OLB in the first place. He is a Special Teams player based on what I have seen.

 

The Giants have options, which is what I was pointing out. They can keep Shockey, certainly. I think that the team also has options to trade him and help the team improve as well (Green Bay, Carolina, Houston and others will look for a TE in the draft and the Giants can negotiate some sort of draft pick swap with one of them maybe).

 

This is too much arguing with a fellow Giants fan. WE WON THE FREAKING SUPERBOWL!!! Long distance high five to you in my old stomping grounds in Madison County.

 

:dancingpa

 

I agree that this is too much arguing, but I must respond. :lol

 

I've never said that Shockey hasn't said some things off the field. If you choose to only accept the few bad things he's done, then that's fine. However, he made one stupid "homophobic" comment in what, his 2nd year? The "outcoached" thing was out of emotion. He apologized. It was right after Seattle whipped the Giants in Seattle, and I mean right after.

 

He participated in some of the voluntary camps THIS year. There is a reason they are voluntary. He comes to every mandatory practice and that's all that we as fans should expect. He works his butt off in Miami to get in shape for the season and I got no problem with that.

 

The Giants also won the Super Bowl without Mathias Kiwanuka, and Derrick Ward. Should they trade them too? The NFL is all about DEPTH, and now the Giants have that at TE. Shockey will come back and start, which is the way it should be.

 

Wilkinson was a ROOKIE two years ago. That's why he was not impressive, also he was in terrible Tim Lewis' read and react scheme. He played very well against New England in week 17 and I look for him to get a shot at starting.

 

Even if the Giants did trade Shockey, it would be absolutely stupid to trade him to an NFC team. He would torch us (The Giants have trouble with good TE's, ask Jason Witten).

 

Super bowl champs baby!!! :dancingpa

I've been giving them to you, unfortunately Jim Schue still thinks he knows what he's talking about...:fire::fire:

 

Shockey's a team guy, no matter what ESPN shows us...

 

And obviously I haven't been paying attention. :walk: I was too caught up in HB20 and JS discussion (:argue:).

I agree that this is too much arguing, but I must respond. :lol

 

I've never said that Shockey hasn't said some things off the field. If you choose to only accept the few bad things he's done, then that's fine. However, he made one stupid "homophobic" comment in what, his 2nd year? The "outcoached" thing was out of emotion. He apologized. It was right after Seattle whipped the Giants in Seattle, and I mean right after.

 

He participated in some of the voluntary camps THIS year. There is a reason they are voluntary. He comes to every mandatory practice and that's all that we as fans should expect. He works his butt off in Miami to get in shape for the season and I got no problem with that.

 

The Giants also won the Super Bowl without Mathias Kiwanuka, and Derrick Ward. Should they trade them too? The NFL is all about DEPTH, and now the Giants have that at TE. Shockey will come back and start, which is the way it should be.

 

Wilkinson was a ROOKIE two years ago. That's why he was not impressive, also he was in terrible Tim Lewis' read and react scheme. He played very well against New England in week 17 and I look for him to get a shot at starting.

 

Even if the Giants did trade Shockey, it would be absolutely stupid to trade him to an NFC team. He would torch us (The Giants have trouble with good TE's, ask Jason Witten).

 

Super bowl champs baby!!! :dancingpa

 

Ward is a free agent and I bet the Giants don't do much to retain him. Kiwanuka is different because of the Strahan situation; he will be gone soon, so you keep Mathias around.

 

You like Wilkerson a lot more than I do. I will only say that I am sure that if Spagnolo thought Wilkerson was good enough to start in his system, he would have gotten more playing time this year than he did. When Kiwanuka went down, Torbor got the playing time, not Gerris. I think that says something about how he fits this system.

 

Good TEs don't burn the Giants, good systems in which all of the passing options are utilized correctly hurt the Giants. Watson didn't hurt us during the Superbowl. Neither did any TE during the playoffs. I would think the Giants would try to avoid trading Shockey in the Division, but you can't eliminate trade partners in a conference; you have just eliminated ever doing business with half of the league.

 

If Shockey went to mini camps this year, then I am sorry. He has not attended mini camps in 5 of the 6 years he has been in the league. He doesn't get a pass on saying stupid things simply because it was his second year in the league or becuase it was after a loss. How come Strahan manages to keep his composure? How about Amani? How about Eli? How about Brandon? They all manage to avoid this type of negative attention.

 

I actually love Shockey. I just don't see why we wouldn't explore all options. Our depth at TE is much more easily replaced than depth at LB, which will be an issue next year, or depth at the secondary positions, which could have cost us this year. Boss is a younger and cheaper option that has provided great results this season. Give him the job and lets see his growth (I think his potential is much greater than Gerris'). We can sign a Jermaine Wiggins in the off season to add TE depth if need be.

 

Jerry Reese will make the right call and we'll see what happens, but I would not be surprised to see Shockey traded around draft time, or to hear the Giants are renegotiating his deal.