:eek: A contradiction in the Bible? Never!!!!!

 

I'm sure we're about to hear that he "is here in our heart" because Jesus can not only be at two places at once, defying the laws of gravity and nature, but he can be everywhere at once which defys the laws of human thought and rationale.

What about the Heisenburg Uncertainy Principle?

Where do you stand on the Big Bang, Quantum Mechanics, Relativity and String Theory?

 

All scientific theories that can be tested (though String Theory is extremely difficult to test empirically). I believe in the big bang theory. Quantum Mechanics is a very testable, and accurate description of phenomena such as the Black Hole Phenomena. I see no logical reason to doubt it. Relativity has a lot of factual basis and is backed by the research of one of the most intelligent men to grace the planet.

 

Sadly, there is no test for religion. God gives us no simple formulas or way to test us. The Christian God expects us to worship him through blind faith - and if we choose not to - then he'll burn us for eternity.

 

How do you feel about Love? Does it exist?

 

Love is a psychological emotion. It is something we create within ourselves. It basically only exists within you and around you - and it is what you make it.

What about the Heisenburg Uncertainy Principle?

 

So Christ, a human man who lived on Earth 2000 years ago, operates under the rules of extremely complex quantum physics?

 

Why couldn't a Sunday school teacher taught me this.

So Christ, a human man who lived on Earth 2000 years ago, operates under the rules of extremely complex quantum physics?

 

Why couldn't a Sunday school teacher taught me this.

What I'm saying is that physical laws as we understand them are not how they always work. Jesus, as part of the Trinity, created the laws under which this universe works, from the Planck Constant to the Hubble Law to Stephen Hawkings Grand Unification Theory. Our theorys keep changing because we keep finding out we don't know what we thought we knew or our physical laws don't work all the time. The Universe is a complex system, and we're foolish to think we understand it. I hope to one day see the entire schematics.

What I'm saying is that physical laws as we understand them are not how they always work. Jesus, as part of the Trinity, created the laws under which this universe works, from the Planck Constant to the Hubble Law to Stephen Hawkings Grand Unification Theory. Our theorys keep changing because we keep finding out we don't know what we thought we knew or our physical laws don't work all the time. The Universe is a complex system, and we're foolish to think we understand it. I hope to one day see the entire schematics.

 

Believe me, I more than see how complex our Universe is. I have never said that I do not believe in some order of creation. I just do not believe in the Christian (or Islamic, Jewish, Hindu, etc) ideal of a "God" who created us. Even if there was a God, a creator, I do not think for a second that he would operate under the system that the Bible describes.

Believe me, I more than see how complex our Universe is. I have never said that I do not believe in some order of creation. I just do not believe in the Christian (or Islamic, Jewish, Hindu, etc) ideal of a "God" who created us. Even if there was a God, a creator, I do not think for a second that he would operate under the system that the Bible describes.

You do however, conceed that God would operate under an ordered "system" don't you?

 

If not those you deny, what "system" do you advocate?

All scientific theories that can be tested (though String Theory is extremely difficult to test empirically). I believe in the big bang theory. Quantum Mechanics is a very testable, and accurate description of phenomena such as the Black Hole Phenomena. I see no logical reason to doubt it. Relativity has a lot of factual basis and is backed by the research of one of the most intelligent men to grace the planet.

 

Sadly, there is no test for religion. God gives us no simple formulas or way to test us. The Christian God expects us to worship him through blind faith - and if we choose not to - then he'll burn us for eternity.

 

The irony is that you are investing an equal amount of faith into “science” as Christians invest into their beliefs. I have a rudimentary understanding of science, and from my evaluation of your posts you don’t have a much greater understanding than I. Yet you continue to assert that science proves everything you believe. First, you can’t disprove God’s existence. I concede that I can’t prove God’s existence. You simply invest your faith in the former. Second, the Big Bang theory is just that, a theory. Not only is it far from established fact, but it has not been completely tested nor may it be fully tested. While I understand what a theory is and what it means - it is beside the point. The point is that you don’t have the knowledge of the complex mathematical calculations, models, and proofs used to explain the theory. You just have faith that they are correct, or will be correct, and hope those researchers who do have the knowledge to comprehend the science are correct.

 

Your beliefs are not absolute. I have never witnessed someone so arrogant as to assume they have the absolute knowledge and understanding of the nature of the universe and so irreverent as to tell others their view of the universe is patently wrong. You merely have an opinion, just as the rest of us.

 

Love is a psychological emotion. It is something we create within ourselves. It basically only exists within you and around you - and it is what you make it.

 

So you don't believe in free will?

So you want a government that doesn't help the poor? You think that is what Jesus would want of us?

 

Yes.

 

I doubt that Jesus wants the government to help the poor.

 

I feel that churches and other private organizations should take care of the poor.

 

I think local private organizations can offer a much clearer. Perspective for need of welfare than arbitrary standards that are set by the government.

in no way am I saying that we shouldn't care for the poor and disabled, I just don't think the government should do this. Why are we so dependent on the government for everything it seems? Have we been brainwashed so well and for so long that we just go along with whatever the government says is best for us?

The problem with government assisting the poor, is that we then have politicians taking advantage of the poor and the welfare system in order to essentially buy the votes of the poor. Under this scenario, it makes absolutely no sense for politicians to do anything to actually implement solutions to the plight of poverty, because they would lose the dependents they need to vote for them and keep them in power. It's a downward spiral.

 

We regulate lobbying activities, and campaign contributions, but somehow we can't seem to find a way to keep politicians from fueling the fires of class warefare to steal votes and feed their hunger for power.

You do however, conceed that God would operate under an ordered "system" don't you?

 

I conceed that I can believe in some order of creation. God, as The Christian's describe him, no.

 

I

f not those you deny, what "system" do you advocate?

 

That is the thing. I don't have to buy into one "system." I don't have to decide which system I will follow out of blind faith. I make decisions based on fact, observation, and thought.

 

How would it be if other things operated on a principle of "faith." What if courts could rightfully send you to prison based on the fact that they have strong "faith" that you did it - but had no factual evidence to base the decision on?

The irony is that you are investing an equal amount of faith into “science” as Christians invest into their beliefs. I have a rudimentary understanding of science, and from my evaluation of your posts you don’t have a much greater understanding than I. Yet you continue to assert that science proves everything you believe. First, you can’t disprove God’s existence. I concede that I can’t prove God’s existence. You simply invest your faith in the former. Second, the Big Bang theory is just that, a theory. Not only is it far from established fact, but it has not been completely tested nor may it be fully tested. While I understand what a theory is and what it means - it is beside the point. The point is that you don’t have the knowledge of the complex mathematical calculations, models, and proofs used to explain the theory. You just have faith that they are correct, or will be correct, and hope those researchers who do have the knowledge to comprehend the science are correct.

 

We know all this, Hab. This is the same old song and dance. I have repeated, now countless times, that the reason I can have logical faith in science and not "blind faith" is that I can test science. We can experiment - find out what is what. The Christian God expects us to just take him for his word. (The Word wrote by humans in a book.)

 

Your beliefs are not absolute. I have never witnessed someone so arrogant as to assume they have the absolute knowledge and understanding of the nature of the universe and so irreverent as to tell others their view of the universe is patently wrong. You merely have an opinion, just as the rest of us.

 

I have never said my "beliefs" are absolute. I don't think I am being arrogant and I know that I have no absolute knowledge of anything. I am an AGNOSTIC. If I thought I had complete knowledge there was no God, I would be an Athiest.

 

 

So you don't believe in free will?

 

 

:confused:

 

I don't believe there is a God going to punish us or that is guiding us in any way. How could I not not believe in free will?

I conceed that I can believe in some order of creation. God, as The Christian's describe him, no.

You wanna know something funny... I don't believe in God as people today describe Him either...

 

I prefer to believe in Him the way He described Himself to us.

 

That is the thing. I don't have to buy into one "system." I don't have to decide which system I will follow out of blind faith. I make decisions based on fact, observation, and thought.

This statement comes across somewhat condescendingly. Perhaps that's not how you meant it, but it certainly sounds as though you feel the thought processes you have followed to conclude... "I don't know" are superior to those of us who examined the facts, observed the world around us and invested considerable thought to arrive at, "This is what I believe."

 

I will concede that “I don’t know” is at the very least an honest response. It is however, difficult to build one’s belief system upon no belief at all.

 

One way or another, we will know which "system" was right and all the others that were wrong some day. It could be the Christian belief as we enter eternity to be in God's presence or forever separated from Him... or it could be that last little blip of awareness that flashes across our consciousness before we slip into oblivion. I'm betting my eternal soul on the truth of Jesus Christ. I’m not here to twist your arm. You are clearly free to believe or perhaps more appropriately - not believe - as you choose.

 

How would it be if other things operated on a principle of "faith." What if courts could rightfully send you to prison based on the fact that they have strong "faith" that you did it - but had no factual evidence to base the decision on?

Unless I’m terribly mistaken, that’s exactly how courts rightfully send felons to prison. Yes, there are times that evidence irrefutable rises above sworn testimony to clearly present the facts. There are many times however, when sworn testimony is accepted on its merits. The court and the jury places “faith” in the character and words of certain witnesses who present their accounts of events. When the “faith” reaches a certain level, defendants go to jail. Faith is a very important part of our lives… even yours.

We know all this, Hab. This is the same old song and dance. I have repeated, now countless times, that the reason I can have logical faith in science and not "blind faith" is that I can test science. We can experiment - find out what is what. The Christian God expects us to just take him for his word. (The Word wrote by humans in a book.)

 

You can test the Big Bang theory? Of what can be tested of it, you can test none of it. You have "blind faith" that the scientist who can test it have been flawless in their proofs, models and conjectures. You are relying on just as great of assumptions as Christians are.

 

I have never said my "beliefs" are absolute. I don't think I am being arrogant and I know that I have no absolute knowledge of anything. I am an AGNOSTIC. If I thought I had complete knowledge there was no God, I would be an Athiest.

 

You have said on more than one occasion that those who believe in the Christian faith believe in nothing more than a fanciful fairy tale. That is applying your opinion as fact, which is the epitome of arrogance and irreverence.

 

I don't believe there is a God going to punish us or that is guiding us in any way. How could I not not believe in free will?

 

If desires, feelings, and emotions like love are simply the result of chemical balances then what choices are we making exactly? That sounds quite contrary to any doctrine of free will I've understood.

 

Or are you saying that love is something more intangible? If so, I await your scientific evidence and facts that will explain it.

Doesn't Jesus say in Matthew that he never left us? ". . . and lo I AM WITH YOU ALWAYS . . ."

 

What is this notion then about a return, if he never left?

 

:eek: A contradiction in the Bible? Never!!!!!

 

I'm sure we're about to hear that he "is here in our heart" because Jesus can not only be at two places at once, defying the laws of gravity and nature, but he can be everywhere at once which defys the laws of human thought and rationale.

No contradiction at all. Keep trying Fan.

 

The Holy Trinity of God, Christ and the Holy Spirit were at the creation and are one.

 

Jesus said he will leave us a gift, counselor, Holy Spirit that will be with us for ever. When the Holy Spirit is with us, Jesus and God are with us. And the Holy Spirit is always with us.